(soft electronic music) >> Narrator: From around
the globe, it's theCUBE
with digital coverage of Women Transforming Technology.
Brought to you by VMware.
>> Hi, Lisa Martin covering
the fifth annual Women Transforming Technology event,
the first time the event has been remote,
so we're not coming to you from Palo Alto today,
we're coming to you from San Jose.
But I'm really excited to be talking
with one of the event speakers,
the founder of Happier Inc., Nataly Kogan.
Nataly, welcome to theCUBE.
>> Thanks so much for having me,
it's great to join you even virtually.
>> Exactly.
And we're so fortunate that this, I guess,
if you can put a positive spin on it,
that this event happened when we have technology,
to still be able to enable as much interaction
and two-way conversations
or multiple-way conversations as possible.
And I know that you just did a session a couple days ago,
at the digital Women Transforming Technology event.
But before we get into that, I saw your TED Talk,
it was awesome, and it's-- >> Thank you.
>> And the timeliness of happier as a subject,
couldn't be more, really, pivotal.
Tell me a little bit about what Happier is,
what the inspiration was for your company.
>> Definitely.
So, as many entrepreneurs,
the inspiration was my personal journey.
So, I grew up in the former Soviet Union,
and when I was 13 years old,
my parents and I left everything and everyone behind
on a journey to try to come as refugees
to the United States.
And as you can imagine,
this was a really difficult experience,
we spent several months in refugee settlements in Europe
before getting permission to come to the U.S. as refugees.
And we started our journey
in the projects outside of Detroit, you know,
on welfare and food stamps,
very grateful to have an opportunity,
but really, really tough.
And I was really overwhelmed.
I was a teenager, I spoke almost no English,
and it was all overwhelming for me,
and I kind of decided for myself,
that if I could just work really hard,
achieve a lot of things, become successful,
then I would feel happy,
and then I would just, like, honor this American dream.
And for the next 20 years, I did work very, very hard,
I did become very successful,
I reached the heights of corporate success,
I worked at McKinsey, you know,
the very well-known consulting firm.
By the age of 25, I was a managing director
at a Venture Capital firm.
In New York, there's fewer than 6% women in Venture Capital.
I started four different companies,
I was part of Microsoft and other tech companies,
and on the outside, I was achieving incredible success.
And while I still am so proud
of every single thing I achieve,
whenever I would achieve it, I'd feel happy,
and then it would, just like a bubble, just pop,
and I didn't feel happy anymore,
and so I pushed myself harder and harder
because I equated happiness with achievement,
until after two decades of doing this,
I just couldn't do it anymore.
I completely burnt out
and it was a really, really dark time in my life.
And I knew I had to find a different way to live,
so that I could do work that's meaningful to me,
but that I could also honor myself as a human,
and find joy in the present moment.
And that led me to doing a lot of research
in psychiatry and psychology and neuroscience
and learning all of these incredible skills
and practices that changed my life,
starting with gratitude,
which is how you cultivate joy in the present moment,
and really inspired me to leave my career
as a technology exec behind to found Happier.
And we've had the same mission since we've been founded,
and that is to help millions of people thrive in work
and in life by practicing science-backed skills
to cultivate their well-being.
>> What are some of the scientific skills behind it
and anything that you see
that is even more pivotal in week eight
of this work-from-home, shelter-in-place?
>> Yes, you know, it sounds really weird to say,
but I feel like I've been preparing my whole life
to help people right now,
because the skills that I've learned
and that I share are so essential.
And the two that I would mention that I've been,
you know, we've been doing all these virtual sessions
for teams and companies and this is the ones I talk about,
the first is the skill of gratitude,
you know, gratitude is just very simply zooming in
on something in your life that is good,
that is positive, that is meaningful,
and honoring it with your full appreciation,
and you know, we're all right now
going through so many challenges,
and we all have what's called a negativity bias,
and that means we're much more sensitive as humans
to anything that's negative
than to anything that's positive,
and when we're going through a challenge,
that negativity bias is even more sensitive.
So I know many folks right now
are feeling really overwhelmed with their own feelings,
with their own sense of loss and fear,
and with all the negative news,
and so, practicing gratitude is essential,
because when you pause,
and you focus on the things in your life, as it is,
amidst the challenge, that you do appreciate,
you'll remind your brain
that the challenge is not everything,
that there is more to your life than what is going wrong,
and that actually helps you
to feel a little bit less stressed and anxious.
And the other piece of science that I'd love to share
is another skill that I talk about, which is acceptance,
and acceptance really, it simply means that we learn
to look at how things are and how we feel with clarity,
instead of judgment, right?
And shorthand for judgment is should,
shouldn't feel like this, this shouldn't be this way.
And having clarity, and allowing ourselves
to actually feel the difficult feelings,
helps us to move through them with a little bit more ease.
I think it's one of the most powerful mindset shifts
that I learn on my journey is that happiness does not mean
that you feel positive all the time.
Happiness and emotional well-being means
that we embrace all of our different feelings,
including the difficult ones,
and we learn how to move through them with compassion.
>> What are some of the things that,
when you're talking to the C-suiter executives
at certain companies whether it's VMware or others,
how are executive teams managers,
where does emotional health come into the play,
knowing that these folks are managing teams?
We're seeing, as you point out, you know,
the negativity bias, we're seeing the numbers
of unemployment go up, and up, and up.
Where is emotional health, in terms of priority,
at the executive level?
>> So, this is one of the,
it sounds really weird to say,
but all of a sudden, it's like been this huge wave.
It already started, right?
Some companies, and we work with many of them,
already understood.
The executives already understood that employee well-being
and emotional health is not an extra, it is not optional,
it is non-negotiable if you want your people
to be at their best.
There are literally mountains of research
that show that when you cultivate employee well-being,
people are more productive, more resilient,
more successful, they solve better problems.
But what's happened in this crisis
is that the companies that were in a place where,
oh, this isn't really important or this is nice to have,
they're now recognizing that this is actually
the most important thing that they can invest in
for the success and longevity
and survival of their businesses,
and so, I'm actually incredibly grateful for that.
I don't like the cost that we have to pay for it,
but I'm incredibly grateful that in this challenging time,
more and more leaders are understanding
that their own well-being,
and the emotional health
of their employees is non-negotiable.
Not just for survival of their businesses,
but if they want to be at their best
and actually figure out how to thrive
in whatever the future holds.
>> And I'm glad to hear that,
because the massive amount of uncertainty
that we're all facing is unprecedented.
You know, you can't pick up the phone
and call your grandmother and say,
what did you guys do back in the day?
And honestly, even if there had been something similar,
if 1918 hadn't been that long ago,
people nowadays are used to getting everything
that you want on demand
and also being able to get connected, have good WiFi,
and be able to deliver what your clients,
what your bosses, expect.
The uncertainty factor
that really weighs heavily on emotion
is a huge inhibitor to productivity.
>> Grocery shopping or work >> It's a huge thing,
so actually, if I can jump in,
uncertainty is the hardest thing for a brain to deal with.
Our brain would rather know that something very bad
will definitely happen, than to be in uncertainty,
and I've actually been talking so much
to companies and leaders about this,
that this is literally the most stress
that we can experience,
because our brain's number one job,
and I'm the founder of a company called Happier,
but I always say this,
your brain's number one job is not to keep you happy,
it is to help you survive.
And so your brain is constantly evaluating your environment.
Is it safe to approach, or is it dangerous, right?
Fight or flight, we know that response.
What's happening right now
is that the brain cannot come up with an answer.
It doesn't know, is it safe, is it not safe?
And I don't just mean in a macro way,
macroeconomic way with the virus,
I mean day-to-day, things change day-to-day.
We're juggling kids and family
and our businesses are changing.
So the brain doesn't give up,
it still tries really hard to figure out
how to keep you safe, and that working overtime,
the way it does that is by releasing stress hormones.
So on top of just the very real challenges
that so many folks have with worrying about loved ones,
juggling working from home and family,
there's also this chronic level of stress
that we're all feeling because of uncertainty.
>> Tell me a little bit about the interactive session
that you held at WT2 the other day.
What were some of the common concerns or questions
that you heard from the audience?
>> Yeah, it's really interesting.
It was such a great session,
and we had a lot of questions,
we could not answer all the questions.
And I take that, it means a lot to me,
'cause folks really thought about what they wanted to ask.
There's a couple of things that emerged as common threads.
The first was how do I help someone in my life,
a colleague, someone I manage, a loved one,
how do I help them during this time
if they're really overwhelmed or stressed or feeling sad?
And we talked about the skill of acceptance
and we talked about how it might be our instinct
to immediately cheer up the person,
but actually the bigger gift we can give them
is to let them know that it's okay to not be okay
and to honor their feelings with our acceptance
and that actually helps them get through.
So that was one of the themes that came up a lot.
Another one was, with all of this uncertainty
and the stress, people would ask,
I have trouble getting motivated,
like, I love my job, I love what I do,
but I have so much trouble getting motivated.
And that is very real, and the first thing that,
if anyone listening feels this way,
there's nothing wrong with you.
Think about the amount of energy
your brain is using on all this stress,
so no wonder you feel more tired and not as motivated
and so we talked about practicing self-compassion,
in our expectations of ourselves,
and recognizing that we are undergoing
something unprecedented and so difficult,
and then to get motivated,
connecting the tasks on your to-do list
to how do they help someone else,
because that is where we connect
to our sense of purpose, right?
So that project you're working on with your team,
or that presentation
that you just can't get motivated to do,
ask yourself, who does this help,
and actually answer the question,
and in that moment, you connect to your sense of purpose
which helps us be more resilient and more motivated.
>> And motivation, or lack thereof, is a huge problem.
And you know, you can't think it's not just me,
not just you,
it's got to be all the way up to the tops of companies
that are really struggling,
because as you say, the brain is so focused right now
and busy and trying to process things,
and there are no concrete answers.
But one of the things that you said,
I read your article in The Washington Post,
that you just did in the last week or so
with your daughter--
>> Thank you, with my daughter.
>> Yeah, with your daughter Mia,
and the validation was spot-on.
And it's so simple, but it's one of those things
that I think often we think,
well, let me explain something
and try to help you in that way,
without maybe stepping back and going,
well, actually, that might help me, but what helps you?
Are you seeing that executive leaders
are also kind of stepping back and asking their teams,
how are the ways that you want me to communicate with you?
Is that something that's happening?
>> You know, I think that we are in an era
of human embracing leadership,
and I am so welcoming this era of leaders
who are leading with their humanity first,
and are embracing the humanity of their people first.
You know, I have this, I'm actually working
on my next book right now, which is for leaders,
and I have this concept,
because I was a leader for so many years,
and I always thought that I could keep my emotions hidden,
that emotions really didn't have anything to do with work.
And so I have this concept for leaders,
imagine you're holding a whiteboard,
and this is your emotional whiteboard.
On it, are written your feelings,
whether you want to admit them or not, the team feels them,
and it's the same for everyone on the team.
So, when you walk into a meeting,
whether it's a virtual meeting or in person,
what is written on your emotional whiteboard?
What are you feeling and how are you approaching others?
What do you want
to be written on your emotional whiteboard, right?
I think as leaders we would say,
well, I want it to say that I care about you as my employee,
that I want to hear how you're feeling,
but think about, are the actions you are taking aligning
with what's on your emotional whiteboard, right?
And so, listening and caring, you know,
I came up with this shorthand, really for me,
as a leader, during a challenging time
and it's ACT, A, C, T.
The first is acknowledge.
Acknowledge your own challenges,
acknowledge your team's challenges, right, validation,
this point we're talking about.
C is for care.
Genuinely care, right?
So don't just do it as a check mark,
but bring your humanity and compassion,
and actually care about people.
There is so much research that,
when employees know that their leader cares about them,
that on its own, is helpful to them,
to their well-being, and their productivity.
And T, ACT, so A, C, T, T is teach by example.
So do the things that you want your employees to follow.
And I do see leaders stepping up more and more
in their passion and their acceptance,
and again, I think this is a difficult
but unique moment in time
to elevate our human embracing leadership.
>> Do you advise women and men to,
when we talked about gratitude a few minutes ago,
write down, maybe it helps you if you're a visual learner,
or someone that learns by storytelling,
to write things down,
maybe write down each day, a few things,
maybe they seem so simple, that you're grateful for.
Or maybe even, I like the idea of the emotional whiteboard.
I can see that as something
that would be helpful to write down.
Do you recommend that to folks
that maybe write down what your actual emotional state is
and what you want it to be?
>> So a couple things on that,
so the short answer is yeah.
You know, when it comes to gratitude,
it doesn't really matter how you practice.
Like, people say to me, like, I'm not a journal-er.
That's fine.
As long as you are specific in your gratitude,
so instead of, I'm grateful for my family,
how about, I'm really grateful
that I can give my daughter a hug
before I start this interview, right?
So the more specific, the better,
and actually the smaller the better.
You talked about small things.
Research shows that it's the frequency
of small positive experiences
that contributes to our life's satisfaction
more than anything grand,
so the smaller the better.
And capturing does help,
so you can write it in a journal,
you can write it on a sticky note.
Maybe it's a text that you sent to a friend
to encourage them to practice gratitude,
as a leader, maybe it's an email that you sent to your team.
So capturing it in some way really does help.
And when it comes to the emotional whiteboard,
the practice that I share with everyone is a check-in.
So, check in with yourself, right?
It's so incredible, you know, we have this group
for women executives called Elevating Women Leaders,
it's an all virtual group, it's a year-long program,
it was virtual before this,
and so we have a group that goes with us every year
and one of the practices we do is,
in the morning and in the afternoon,
you check in with yourself and just say, how am I feeling?
And you would not believe the impact
that that has on their ability to solve problems,
on their ability to show up as their best,
just by pausing and checking in, like, how am I feeling,
what is on my emotional whiteboard,
acknowledging that, without judgment,
being compassionate towards yourself,
and then saying, what is one thing I can shift
if I would like to feel differently?
>> The acknowledgment piece is critical, I think,
because it's the vulnerability to step up and go,
I don't feel great about this,
and let me say that out loud,
maybe it helps me become accountable to that
or I've said it to a boss or a colleague,
to put it out there.
That's a hard thing for people to do,
especially I can think there is this dichotomy
of people being concerned about job safety,
when we're seeing what's going on in the news.
Did any of that come up during your WT2 session about
I'm afraid to admit that I'm not motivated
because our company's experiencing layoffs?
>> Yeah, it's definitely come up in the session
and in other sessions of kind of finding that balance,
and look, you have to be realistic,
because we all have different cultures in our teams.
You have to be realistic about your leadership.
But what I find over and over
is that authenticity wins the day.
So you have to make a call, right, how much you share,
but even if it's just a little bit of acknowledgement,
it is helpful because it helps you not resist it so much,
and more likely than not,
there's somebody on your team who feels similarly,
so that, right away,
there is comfort in knowing we're not alone.
There's actually newer logical comfort
in knowing we're not alone,
like, we need that sense of safety,
but also, you may then be able to move through that
and brainstorm together and help each other get motivated.
So, you know, you have to judge
by the culture of your team,
but authenticity and you acknowledging your humanity
to whatever degree you feel comfortable,
is usually an incredibly helpful practice
to help you be at your best,
whatever that means that day.
>> And I couldn't agree with you more,
I always say authenticity is contagious.
Nataly, it has been so great having you on the program.
I wish we could keep chatting, but it is time to go.
>> Me too.
>> Thank you so much.
So, folks can go to happier.com or happierinc.com
to learn more? >> Happier.com
>> Happier.com >> Happier.com
>> Lots of, lots of, tons of free blog posts and videos
on all of the different practices I shared,
more about anything we do, so yes,
come visit us at happier.com,
and thank you so much for such thoughtful questions.
I'm always incredibly grateful
for thoughtful questions at interviews,
so I really appreciate that.
>> Well, good, Nataly, it's been a pleasure having you.
And I want to thank you for watching
on behalf of Nataly Kogan.
I'm Lisa Martin, covering Women Transforming Technology,
the virtual version, 2020.
Bye for now.
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