>>> ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ HAS CALLED PRESIDENT TRUMP A RACIST.
HAVE YOU SEEN HIM DO ANYTHING
RACIST OR BIGOTED?
>> NO.
>> NO. ALL I’LL SAY IS WHEN THE
DEMOCRATS CALLED THE PRESIDENT A
RACIST, THEY’RE DOING A
DISSERVICE TO PEOPLE WHO SUFFER.
>> WHICH BIRTHER ISN’T RACIST?
>> LOOK, I WASN’T REALLY
INVOLVED IN THAT.
>> I KNOW YOU WEREN’T.
WAS IT RACIST?
>> LIKE I SAID, I WASN’T
INVOLVED IN THAT.
>> I KNOW YOU WEREN’T.
WAS IT RACIST?
>> LOOK, I KNOW WHO THE
PRESIDENT IS AND I HAVE NOT SEEN
ANYTHING IN HIM THAT IS RACIST.
SO AGAIN I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN
THAT.
THAT. >> DO YOU WISH HE DIDN’T DO
THAT?
THAT? >> I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THAT.
THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO.
>> THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO.
JARED KUSHNER SPEAKING THERE
WITH JONATHAN SWAN OF ACTION OWE
IN AN EXTRAORDINARY INTERVIEW.
AND JONATHAN JOINS US NOW.
JONATHAN, GOOD MORNING.
ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.
A LITTLE BACKDROP BECAUSE WE
WERE JUST DISCUSSING JARED
KUSHNER DOESN’T DO A LOT OF
INTERVIEWS.
INTERVIEWS. HOW DID YOU COMPEL HIM TO SIT
DOWN?
DOWN? >> JUST BRIBERY, WILLIE.
>> JUST STRAIGHT BRIBERY.
CASH DEAL.
CASH DEAL. >> UNDER THE TABLE STUFF.
YOU KNOW?
YOU KNOW? >> FAIR ENOUGH.
OH, YOU’RE JUST GOING WITH THAT.
OKAY.
OKAY. WE GOT A LOT IN THIS INTERVIEW
WE WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT.
WERE YOU SURPRISED AT HIS
INABILITY TO SAY CONCEPTUALLY
THAT BIRTHERISM IS RACIST AND
JUST SAY I WASN’T THERE?
>> NOT REALLY.
BECAUSE JARED KUSHNER DEFENDS
HIS FATHER-IN-LAW AT EVERY TURN.
AND -- I MEAN, THE QUESTION I
ASKED WAS YOU’VE HEARD A LOUD
CHORUS OF DEMOCRATS ALEXANDRIA
OCASIO-CORTEZ PROBABLY BEING THE
LATEST TO CALL THE PRESIDENT A
RACIST PIM AND SOAND SO I ASKED
OPEN ENDED QUESTION.
AND HE GAVE A VERY PASSIONATE
DEFENSE OF THE PRESIDENT.
AND I JUST THOUGHT A LOGICAL
FOLLOW-UP WOULD BE TO ASK HIM
ABOUT THE TWO INCIDENTS WHICH
PEOPLE BRING UP MOST PROMINENTLY
WHEN THEY MAKE THAT ARGUMENT
ABOUT THE PRESIDENT.
I HONESTLY DIDN’T KNOW HOW HE
WAS GOING TO RESPOND.
AND I THINK THEY’RE THE MOST
INTERESTING QUESTIONS.
INTERESTING QUESTIONS. WHEN YOU ASK A QUESTION AND YOU
GENUINELY DON’T KNOW WHAT THE
ANSWER IS GOING TO BE, IT’S SORT
OF THE OPPOSITE OF A PROSECUTOR.
I DIDN’T KNOW WHAT HE WAS GOING
TO SAY.
TO SAY. AND SO, YEAH.
I WAS INTERESTED AND I GUESS
SOMEWHAT SURPRISED.
SOMEWHAT SURPRISED. I THOUGHT MAYBE HE WOULD BE EVEN
MORE FORCEFUL AND MIGHT SAY NO,
IT WASN’T, YOU KNOW, JUST OUT OF
PURE LOYALTY.
PURE LOYALTY. >> EVEN IFFOR A LOYAL SON-IN-LAW
WITH THAT EXPRESSLESS LOOK ON
HIS FACE AND NOT SHOW ANY
EMOTION OR ANY BROAD
CONDEMNATION FOR BIRTHERISM
WHICH WAS PLAINLY RACIST IS
EXTRAORDINARY.
EXTRAORDINARY. >> HE SAID THE PRESIDENT HASN’T
BEEN RACIST FOR 66 YEARS.
NEW YORKERS KNOW THE FULL PAGE
AD DONALD TRUMP TOOK OUT ON THE
CENTRAL PARK FIVE.
THAT STARTED IT.
AND BIRTHERISM WAS CLEARLY
RACIST.
RACIST. IF YOU GOT ANY INSIGHTS INTO THE
MIDDLE EAST PEACE PLAN THAT’S
SUPPOSED TO BE ROLLED OUT IN
JUNE AND WHAT IT MIGHT LOOK
LIKE.
LIKE. IT LOOKED LIKE THE PALESTINIANS
ARE BOYCOTTING THIS ECONOMIC
DAVOS THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO OCCUR
IN BAHRAIN.
IN BAHRAIN. DID YOU GET A FEELING FOR WHAT
WAS IN THIS PLAN?
>> THE SUMMIT AT THE END OF THIS
MONTH IS AN ECONOMIC SUMMIT.
THAT’S THE ECONOMIC PORTION OF
THE PLAN.
THE PLAN. THE GREAT MYSTERY IN THE REGION
IS WHAT THE POLITICAL PORTION OF
THE PLAN CONTAINS.
WHICH IS THE DIVISION OF
TERRITORY.
TERRITORY. WILL THE PLINS GET THEIR OWN
STATES WITH A CAPITAL IN EAST
JERUSALEM WHICH IS A DEMAND?
TO WHAT EXTENT WILL MILITARY AND
GOVERNMENT BE INVOLVED IN THAT
AREA?
AREA? AND JARED KUSHNER HAS BEEN
INCREDIBLY TIGHT LIPPED ABOUT
THIS PLAN.
THIS PLAN. IT’S PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST
KEPT SECRETS IN THE U.S.
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. AND HE DIDN’T REVEAL ANYTHING TO
ME.
ME. BUT WHAT HE DID SAY, YOU KNOW,
THOSE PARTS OF THE INTERVIEW
WERE THE LEAST REVEALING WHEN I
TRIED TO PRESS HIM FOR ANSWERS.
THE MORE REVEALING WERE THE
QUESTIONS DO YOU THINK THE
PALESTINIANS ARE CAPABLE OF
GOVERNING THEMSELVES.
GOVERNING THEMSELVES. HE SEEMED VERY UNCERTAIN TO THE
POINT OF NOT REALLY, AT LEAST
NOT CURRENTLY.
NOT CURRENTLY. AND THEN HE SAID THAT THEY -- HE
BELIEVES THEY SHOULD HAVE
SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH IS
QUITE A FLEXIBLE TERM AND
DOESN’T PRECLUDE THE IDEA OF
BEING ISRAELI MILITARY OR
GOVERNMENTAL SUPERVISION.
GOVERNMENTAL SUPERVISION. >> LET’S LISTEN TO PART OF THAT
EXCHANGE WITH JARED KUSHNER ON
THE MIDDLE EAST PEACE PLAN.
HERE IT IS.
>> DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY THE
PALESTINIANS DON’T TRUST YOU?
>> LOOK, I’M NOT HERE TO BE
TRUSTED.
TRUSTED. I’M HERE TO BE --
>> WELL, YOU ARE, FRANKLY.
TO LOOK AT IT FROM YOUR POINT OF
VIEW.
VIEW. YOU’RE A BUSINESSMAN, YOU LOOK
AT THINGS FROM THEIR VIEW.
YOU’VE GOT THREE ORTHODOX JEWS
ON THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.
YOU’VE GOT JEWISH SETTLEMENTS IN
THE WEST BANK.
YOU’VE GOT THE ACTIONS YOU’VE
TAKEN SO FAR MOVING THE EMBASSY
TO JERUSALEM, YOU’VE CUT ALL AID
TO THE PALESTINIANS INCLUDING
HOSPITALS, AND YOU SHUT DOWN THE
PALESTINIAN DIPLOMATIC OFFICE IN
WASHINGTON.
WASHINGTON. CAN YOU NOT SEE WHY THEY MIGHT
NOT WANT TO TALK TO YOU AND THAT
THEY MIGHT NOT TRUST YOU?
>> SO THERE’S A DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN THE PALESTINIAN
LEADERSHIP AND THE PALESTINIAN
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. OKAY?
OKAY? >> AND YOU THINK THE PALESTINIAN
PEOPLE WOULD BE OKAY WITH ALL
THOSE THINGS THAT YOU’VE DONE?
>> THE ACTIONS WE’VE TAKEN WERE
BECAUSE AMERICA’S AID IS NOT AN
ENTITLEMENT.
ENTITLEMENT. IF WE MAKE DECISIONS TO RESPECT
THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER SOVEREIGN
NATION AND WE’RE CRITICIZED BY
THAT GOVERNMENT, THE RESPONSE OF
THIS PRESIDENT IS NOT LET ME
GIVE YOU MORE AID.
THAT WAS A RESULT OF THE
PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP.
PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP. THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, I
BELIEVE THEY WANT TO HAVE A
BETTER LIFE.
BETTER LIFE. I DO THINK --
>> NEVER MIND THE AID BEING CUT.
>> THEY’RE NOT GOING TO JUDGE IT
BASED ON ME.
THEY’LL JUDGE IT BASED ON THE
FACTS AND MAKE A DETERMINATION.
WILL THIS ALLOW THEM TO HAVE A
PATHWAY TO A BETTER LIFE OR NOT.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK OF WHAT YOU
HEARD?
HEARD? >> JARED DID A SENSATIONAL JOB.
THE PALESTINIANS AREN’T PERFECT
HERE.
HERE. THEY ARE NOT A VIABLE PARTNER IN
MANY WAYS.
MANY WAYS. HISTORICALLY THEY’VE BLOWN MANY
OPPORTUNITIES.
OPPORTUNITIES. BUT THEY HAVE BEEN CUT OUT FROM
THE GET GO OF THIS PROCESS.
THE IDEA THAT IN ECONOMICS ONLY
OR ECONOMICS FIRST PACKAGE CAN
ENTICE THE PALESTINIANS IS
SIMPLY A NONSTARTER.
THE IDEA THAT THE SAUDIS OR
ANYBODY ELSE CAN DELIVER THE
PALESTINIANS IS A SECOND
NONSTARTER.
NONSTARTER. SO THE PREMISES OF WHAT JARED
KUSHNER IS DOING ARE FLAWED.
YOU’RE NOT GOING TO HAVE AN
IMPOSED AGREEMENT.
IMPOSED AGREEMENT. ECONOMICS IS NOT GOING TO WIN
THE DAY HERE.
AND THEN IT’S GARBLED.
SELF-DETERMINATION.
SELF-DETERMINATION. THINK ABOUT THE PHRASE.
SELF-DETERMINATION MEANS THE
PALESTINIANS GET TO CHOOSE THEIR
OWN FUTURE.
OWN FUTURE. THAT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
THERE’S NOT A PALESTINIAN STATE
ON THE TABLE HERE.
THERE’S SOMETHING ILL DEFINED
THAT’S LESS.
THAT’S LESS. YOU DON’T HAVE AN ISRAELI
PARTNER, EITHER, BY THE WAY,
UNTIL NOVEMBER AND DEPENDING ON
THE NATURE OF THE GOVERNMENT YOU
WON’T HAVE A PARTNER THEN.
SO I REALLY THINK THIS PLAN IS
STILL BORN.
STILL BORN. >> DAVID IGNATIUS, CAN I JUST
ASK YOU.
ASK YOU. IS THERE ANY REASON WE SHOULD
TAKE JARED KUSHNER’S PEACE PLAN
SERIOUSLY AT ALL?
>> WELL, HE’S PUT A LOT OF WORK
INTO IT AND SPENT A LOT OF TIME
TRAVELING TALKING TO PEOPLE
ABOUT IT.
ABOUT IT. SO THE SIMPLE IS THAT THE UNITED
STATES HAS ABANDONED THE ROLE
THAT RICHARD HAASS, SO MANY
OTHERS HELPED US TO PLAY.
WHICH WE DESCRIBED AS BEING THE
HONEST BROKER IN THIS VERY
DIFFICULT PROBLEM.
DIFFICULT PROBLEM. IT’S BEEN THERE SINCE 1967 ABOUT
THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES, HOW
THEY SHOULD BE ADMINISTERED.
I LOOK AT WHAT JARED KUSHNER,
THE BUSINESS GUY IS TRYING TO
DO.
DO. I THINK OF THIS BEING A
LEVERAGED BUYOUT OF THE
PALESTINIAN PROBLEM.
PALESTINIAN PROBLEM. THE BAHRAIN ECONOMIC SUMMIT,
BASICALLY THE IDEA.
LET’S HOSE THIS AREA AS MUCH AS
WE CAN WITH INVESTMENT.
LET’S TRY TO CREATE JOBS, A
SENSE OF ECONOMIC DYNAMISM SO
PEOPLE WILL FORGET ABOUT SOME OF
THE OTHER HARDER ISSUES.
THERE WILL BE WHAT WE CALL AN
OUTSIDE IN EFFORT TO TAKE SAUDI
ARABIA, THE UAE, OTHER MAJOR
COUNTRIES AND EMBODY THE IDEAS
THAT THOSE COUNTRIES JUST ACCEPT
ISRAEL.
ISRAEL. I THINK THAT’S GOING TO BE
POWERFUL.
POWERFUL. NOBODY SHOULD MINIMIZE THE
IMPORTANCE OF THAT.
BUT IN TERMS OF GETTING TO THE
HEART OF THIS PROBLEM, I’VE SEEN
NOTHING FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION
THAT REALLY ENGAGES IT IN THE
WAYS THAT WE’VE LEARNED SINCE
’67 HAVE TO BE DONE.
>> JONATHAN SWAN, SO THOROUGH
WAS YOUR INTERVIEW THAT WE HAVE
TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK.
WE’LL TALK ABOUT IT ON THE OTHER
SIDE INCLUDING YOUR QUESTIONING
ABOUT HIS FRIENDSHIP WITH THE