Two of the biggest names in rap music were arrested this week on
RICO charges brought on by Georgia's state prosecutors.
Young Thug and
Gunna are now defendants in a sweeping indictment which targets gang violence.
And they're planning on using the rappers own lyrics as evidence in the case.
And that is the controversial part.
Let me just put all my cards on the table.
I am not very familiar with these two rappers.
So whether they're guilty of this or not, I'm not gonna weigh in on that.
I wanna specifically focus on the use of rap lyrics as evidence,
in a case like this.
Which I disagree with.
I don't think that this is evidence that should be admissible in court.
Specifically because I don't think that rap lyrics, or
lyrics in general are necessarily literal.
Meaning that they're rapping or singing about things that have actually happened.
Now let me give you some more information on the case.
Georgia, prosecutors arrested Young Thug, whose real name is Jeffery Lamar Williams,
on felony charges of participating in gang activity and
violating Georgia's Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations statute.
Controversially, the Grammy-winning rapper's lyrics and
social media posts are a key part of the indictment.
The 80-plus page indictment charges both Young Thug and another rapper, Gunna,
with gang-related crimes, and includes more than 25 others who
have allegedly participated in [Young Slime Life] gang activity.
Now I wanna give you a few examples of the lyrics that they're planning on
using as evidence in this case.
So, this is from Anybody by Young Thug.
That's the name of the song.
And in it, he raps.
I never killed anybody but I got something to do with that body.
I told them to shoot a hundred rounds.
Ready for war like I'm Russia.
I get all type of cash, I'm a general.
So they're planning on using that as evidence.
There's also the song Slatty where he raps, I killed his man in
front of his momma, like f*** lil bruh, sister and his cousin.
I shoot out.
Kill not leaving a trace.
YSL, I'm thinking that means- That's Young Slim Life.
>> Keep sailor wrong.
No,no, no.
Yeah.
God, I'm so budgie.
>> That's so funny, that's so funny.
>> I know, sorry, sorry.
Okay, anyway, let's just pretend like that didn't happen [LAUGH].
We going overboard [LAUGH].
And then finally there's Really Be Slime, where he raps.
My [n-words] I'm not gonna say it.
Really, they slime, and we committing these crimes, or them crimes.
Hop out and shoot.
Go catch you a body.
Me and lil bro, we used to steal from the store, we had to stick it and go.
So Junk, some are making an argument that like,
this should be protected by the First Amendment.
And since it's protected by the First Amendment,
it shouldn't be considered evidence.
I completely disagree with that argument.
But I do agree with the arguments, that oftentimes rap lyrics and
lyrics in general are embellished.
So using that as evidence,
as if you're supposed to take those lyrics at face value, is insane to me.
>> Yeah, I don't know that it's insane.
So I think this story is interesting and complicated.
So let me explain.
So, first of all,
there's nothing we do better on this show than reading rap lyrics.
Totally we're number one.
>> Yeah. >> You say Laurel.
>> Yeah [LAUGH] and we're really cool.
And it shows that we are not at all boomers.
And I'm gonna- >> I'm not a boomer.
How dare you?
Okay. >> You're a boomer.
>> Okay, all right. That'll show me.
We almost had a rap battle there.
Okay [LAUGH] but I'll show you how much of a boomer I am.
Young Slime Life, it doesn't sound that fun, okay.
Although we did almost call the show the Young Thug's.
This is not the right one.
Don't get wrong with that. I'm kidding.
Although one of the best compliment I ever got was from IDa Rodriguez,
who called me and Anna intellectual thugs.
And I was like, hm-mm, I like that.
Okay, now onto the actual story.
So guys, part of it is absurd, right?
Using the rap lyrics.
It's a form of entertainment.
Can we use Scarface against Al Pacino?
I mean, look at all that cocaine, your honor, it's right there and
he put his face in it, right?
And look at his little friend, okay [LAUGH].
No, they're actors.
Of course you can't.
How about the guy who wrote it?
Okay, no, the guy who wrote Matrix, isn't actually in the Matrix.
It's entertainment.
And so is the music.
So, well that seems like an open and shut case.
Except that when you're writing novels, you're writing songs,
any kind of songs, a lot of times you do use your own personal experiences.
And, and in fact in rap, a lot of times they say, well, this is our experience,
our lived experience, in these communities etc, right?
And that's part of why rap is great, okay?
So the key here is,
can they actually match up the lyrics to things that happen in real life?
Because is it impossible for a rappers this brag in public about
the things that him or his crew did, that were real?
It's not impossible, right?
But it is entertainment.
So you have a very high bar to clear.
If I was on the jury, I'd be super skeptical.
But if you showed, hey, there's the lyric, and there's exactly what happened.
And I'd be like, okay, that's a little bit more compelling.
You see why I say it's complicated Anna?
>> Yeah, I do, I see what you say.
I see what you mean.
But, look, if I were a juror and I'm listening to this case and this is like,
exhibit, all right, well, this is exhibit A, we're gonna show you these rap lyrics.
If they don't bolster their claims with additional evidence to show
that these aren't just embellished rap lyrics, I'm just going to dismiss it.
I'm not gonna take it seriously.
>> Yeah.
>> So that's why I'm, yeah, I'm surprised that there's so
much focus on this alleged evidence.
>> Yeah, look, the last couple of things here.
So there is a history of stigmatizing rap and
the stereotypes that come along with it.
In this case, for whatever it's worth, it's actually a black prosecutor in
Atlanta, and she's also the one going after Trump.
So, I don't see any motivation here for why she'd wanna stereotype rap music.
You never know.
But it seems less likely.
There's no reason to believe that she's some weirdo conservative.
And by the way, gang violence is up, and significant now in Atlanta.
And everyone has a very legitimate interest in
making sure that prosecutors go after people who are committing violence.
So, like I said, it's a very high bar, and it would be the same for
me whether it's a rap song, or it's a movie.
But if you said, hey, the writer of that movie wrote this scene,
where he killed someone and it looks like he killed someone, in
exactly the way that that scene is, we'll go, okay, I'm at least willing to listen.
In fact, we did a story about this little old white lady who wrote a novel about
killing her husband, and then killed her husband.
You remember that story just a couple of weeks ago, right?
>> That's true, yep, yep.
So, so- >> That's a good point,
that's a good point.
Listen, Council Ugur you may now rest your case.
You have made excellent points here.
>> [LAUGH] Thank you, but it's of course,
this is my downside is I can never rest my case.
So, I'm gonna say one last thing,
which is the First Amendment case thing is nonsense.
You have the right to say anything you want, but can it be used against you?
Of course, so, if you walked up to the cops and said, I killed my wife and
here's how I killed her.
And they find out that's what you did, you can't be like, hey,
I got a First Amendment right to say it.
Yeah, you do, but [LAUGH] that's not going to help you in the trial.
You see my point on that too?
>> Yeah, no, I totally agree with you on that point.
And what final thing I'll say about this is,
the First Amendment argument to me read as dumb First Amendment
arguments that you tend to see by right wingers on twitter,
like, somehow now extending to our criminal justice system.
Where it's like do you understand what the First Amendment really means?
Like, what it actually protects and what it doesn't protect?
Like, it's amazing how few people understand what
the First Amendment really is, right?
What it actually applies to and what it does not apply to.
It's actually really sad.
But I guess that's one of the symptoms of gutting our education system,
as Republicans have done for many decades now.