Is there any chance that you can make it work with the toxic narcissist?.
Is there anything you can do to change the narcissist or yourself so that your relationship could be improved or
so that maybe you wouldn't feel so miserable if you stayed with a narcissist?.
Is there any way to make it work with a narcissist?. That's what we're talking about today at QueenBeeing.com,
so let's get started. (Closed captioning provided by Athena Moberg and
CPTSDfoundation.org.). My name is Angie Atkinson and on this channel
I offer free, daily video coaching to help you discover, understand and overcome
narcissistic abuse in toxic relationships. I like to call it toxic relationship rehab. So if that sounds good to you,
hit that Subscribe button and let's get going. So we're just gonna jump right in here. Here's the bottom line,
the question today is can you make it work with a narcissist or not? Well to be honest with you,
I never recommend trying to stick it out with a narcissist.
However,
there are certain situations where you must deal with the narcissist and there are some ways that you can deal with them
that will help you feel less frustrated and get more of what you want from the relationship, plus have less drama.
So I'm going to share some of those ways with you right now, take a look. As always,
I suggest gray rock as item number 1 on the list. Anytime the narcissist is being disrespectful to you or
screaming at you or going through narcissistic rage,
narcissistic injury, any type of manipulation, you should react with a nonreaction, as the gray rock method suggests.
You go gray rock, you go blank face, you go no emotion, you go boring,
that way that person doesn't get the supply they want by acting that way and on that same token,
if someone that you cannot go no contact with gives you positive
attention, whether they're love-bombing you or otherwise,
then you behave in a relatively kind way in response.
You give them positive feedback, because then if they get no feedback when they're negative or they get positive feedback when they're positive,
there's more likely a chance that they're going to lean toward being positive with you in the future, because they don't get any sort of
supply or response when you're negative. A lot of times people who are dealing with
narcissists have to kind of learn how to shine them on a little bit, because a narcissist needs supply.
So if you are forced to deal with this person,
the best thing that you can do is again when they do something good, give them extra praise, give them extra you're so awesome
treatment, because when they feel like you admire them or you think they're amazing,
they're going to be more likely to be kind to you, it's just a fact,
it's an unfortunate fact,
but it is a fact. So with a narcissist that you cannot go no contact with, anytime you have the opportunity
to praise them, do so. It will make them like you more.
Now if you're in a situation where you're dealing with a narcissist for a business deal or a work thing
or even in your home even, someone you're connected to
biologically,
the best thing you can do is if you're gonna make a deal with them, make sure that you get your side of the deal
upfront, because if you pay first, for example,
let's say that you are
buying an item from a narcissist, if you give them the money upfront
and then you say I'll take the item in two weeks or I'll take the service in a week or whatever,
guess what? you ain't getting it, you're gonna have lost your money or whatever your version of that is in this situation.
So whatever you're doing when you're doing any sort of business or dealing or bargaining with a
narcissist make sure that you get what's due to you up front so that you don't lose out in the end.
So basically the narcissist gets what they want
after you get what you want. The idea is when they want something they're more likely to pay up for what they're
doing in return.
So if for example you need a narcissistic boss to give you a good reference so you can get into a good college,
what are you going to do for that? Narcissistic boss in return?
Well, maybe you agree to you know
do ten reports to make his life easier or her life easier or whatever. Before you do those reports,
you make sure that you make the deal with the narcissist, you get your reference
and then you do the reports. Definitely follow through because it's not fair to do that
you're gonna just be acting like a narcissist if you don't follow through with your into the bargain,
but make sure your thing is done before their thing is done. If you give them a way to
seem awesome or
amazing in the process even better, this is something that benefits you a little more when you're dealing with a narcissist.
So for example, if... we're going back to the same example, if you can say oh my gosh,
I heard about that awesome reference letter you wrote for mr. X. I bet you can do something amazing and really make my life better,
blah-blah-blah-blah-blah, then when they do turn over the reference letter to you,
you can just go goshy
you know,
gosh about how amazing that letter is, how wonderful it is and how you're gonna tell everybody how awesome they are and how thankful you
are, that will make a narcissist like you more, that will make a narcissist more willing to do things for you in the future,
especially if you follow through on your end of the bargain in the first place. What if this isn't about a
narcissist boss what if you don't have anything to offer the narcissist to make them feel amazing, then
how do you deal with it?.
One thing that has worked for many of my clients in the past is the simple act of asking them
what would so-and-so think or what would people think if you did this thing. Look narcissists are
generally not stupid people,
but they also
generally don't think about what other people would think or care about unless that person matters to them or their opinion matters to them.
So if you're not really in a place where you can sort of tell the narcissist hey,
what would people think or you can say so-and-so is not gonna think XYZ is really okay.
Are you sure you want to do that?.
Then you're gonna ask questions to make the narcissists think about what that person might think and each time
this is gonna be a little different for each situation,
but ask the narcissist questions that would help them to imagine what other people might think about their behavior in those moments.
Remember that a narcissist always wants to look good to the people in their lives,
so rather than trying to react to them with anger or frustration,
you can be sad about what they didn't do or
disappointed about what they didn't do that will help them to see things from a different perspective.
If you're not forced to stay in the relationship and you really want to stay in the relationship,
what are you supposed to do here?.
One of the things I did last year when I interviewed several others in my niche is I asked them this question;
Can you ever make it work with a narcissist?
I'm going to share with you my response and some of their responses, take a look.
I think it would be incredibly difficult for a narcissist to heal, because so much of their disorder
it's a defense mechanism
against being vulnerable and in order to heal a person really has to let their guard down and be vulnerable and
I've heard there's a lot of different programs out there that are talking about you know, oh, you know
we heal narcissists or whatever,
but I guess I would encourage anybody if they're stuck in that, trying to figure out can they change,
are they a narcissist, whatever to really think about. If you are gonna go in a couples therapy,
if you are gonna go down that route, have a very clear idea in your mind about
how much time and energy and money are you willing to
put into this and what kind of changes do you need to have happen
and in what time frame?. You'll have the answer when you have those answers.
Have you personally ever seen or heard about a narcissist who did heal?.
No, no. If anything they tend to get worse over time, not better. At the domestic violence shelter
I worked at, they had... when many shelters have... at least they used to I don't know if they do so much anymore,
but they used to have programs for
violent men basically that had been abusive and it was kind of this domestic violence
rehabilitative type program and what a lot of places were finding that it was making them worse not better. When you've got that person
that's kind of locked into that fight reflex,
their behavior is a
reflection of their mindset and if a person's mindset is all about dominance and deceit and it's all about winning at the expense of
everybody else,
that's deep-seated,
pathological behavior and it's you know, it's like playing whack-a-mole
like you know, they might not become like physically violent anymore, but then odds are that that same minds that's gonna resurface in
verbal abuse and emotional abuse and sexual and financial and spiritual abuse
you know, an abusive person by and large, that's so deep-seated in their
personality that I think if they were to change, it would take decades and
regardless, a person... just because there is a treatment out there and I personally don't believe that there is any effective treatment out there,
but if even if there was, a person has to actually want to change,
jlike we know that there's treatment out there for alcohol for alcoholics and for addicts,
but it doesn't matter if they're not willing to change
and...
so in during that time when that person's going through that cycle of change
you know, that there's that whole pre-contemplation and contemplation,
there's those different stages of change, when they're going through that, in the meantime everybody that's on the receiving end of that,
the alcoholism, the addiction, the abuse, what have you is being dragged through hell and is being traumatized. So even if they could change,
its gonna create PTSD and everybody around them up until they do change. So, I you know, I'm just... I'm a big fan of
keeping ourselves safe and sane, in limiting the amount of damage from
destructive people in our lives. Dr. David Hawkins is a
psychotherapist who has said I can change the narcissist.
I have cured a narcissist and I've talked about him before on this channel, a couple of different times. The first time when a viewer
came to me and said hey, have you heard about this guy? What do you think about what he has to say?.
Well, here's a clip from that video where I talked about what Dr.
Hawkins is all about, just to give you an overview and a kind of review for you, exactly what his theory is, here you go, take
a look.
So the first step that I hear him talking about is he thinks that if a narcissist has an
appropriate breakdown they could feasibly come out of it and behave properly. There's some truth to that.
He gives an example in the video,
Hh says that he has a client and this client was in his care getting therapy because his wife left him.
Dr. Hawkins worked with his client to help him have the breakdown which occurred because of the fact that his wife left him.
Dr
Hawkins goes on to say that he helped him work through all his little issues and help him learn how to process
emotions correctly and now he says this couple is enjoying the relationship better than they ever have before, something of that nature.
So what it comes down to is I would like to know how those people are doing in six months,
I'd like to know how they're doing in a year, because what I have seen is that when a narcissist changes they will change, absolutely
they'll change if they are threatened or if something that they want is going to be taken away from them such as maybe their primary
source of supply and
depending on the narcissist, but what happens is the change is temporary almost every time, I've never personally seen a narcissist
permanently change and I've not been able to find a lot of other people who agree that you can
permanently help a narcissist change or heal from narcissism. Dr. Hawkins argues
that changed is only likely to occur in these cases if they really do think they're going to lose something.
if what they stand to lose is greater than what they have to give to change. Richard said he had not heard of Dr.
Hawkins before, but here was his opinion on how this whole deal works. If somebody has full-blown narcissistic personality disorder,
I'm fairly traditional in a lot of my approaches and that is one of them,which is know my understanding of the mechanics of the
disorder are such that if they have that rare diagnosis, they will as a
intrinsic element of
narcissistic personality disorder, they kind of have to reject therapy,
they have to reject help from the outside and help within their most intimate and vulnerable spaces.
So when it comes down to Dr
Hawkins, in my opinion, is that he's teaching behavior modification and
narcissists who are afraid they're going to lose someone or who are trying to get back a
valued source of supply might temporarily change their behavior,
thanks to behavior modification and extensive therapy.
Now with that being said, according to what I heard from the videos that I watched of Dr
Hopkins as well as from several clients of his, who reached out to me after these videos were done,
it does require the person to maintain and stay in therapy
as long as they are going forward - that's convenient when you're charging by the hour- even those who said yes,
I was helped, my husband was helped, my wife was helped by this person, which I think to be honest with you
I think he only works with male narcissists, then even those people said though
it only happens once a month or once a week or whatever,
so it still goes on, it does not change and any change that does come is a result of behavior modification
not through the intrinsic change. Cure is a pretty is a pretty strong word to use in this context,
I mean it would be remarkable,
not least because if we come at it from another angle in terms of psychoanalysis and
psychotherapeutic practice, we know and we accept that childhood trauma is very, very hard to deal with, so
if you had another... basically to say I can cure narcissism is to say I can cure deep, long-term, deep-seated,
childhood trauma and its effect and if that were true, you'd have done something truly remarkable
and if that were true and he had uncovered such a methodology,
why would he be focusing on narcissistic predators instead of on everybody else who suffered childhood trauma?.
So it seems like a spurious claim that's guaranteed
to do its own marketing for you
and I would be very suspicious of that claiming. So the question now is can a narcissist change?.
Is it possible for a narcissist to change?. Well, if you've watched my channel very long
you know my stance on this and that is very similar to Richard's stance. No, they don't change. Can they?, sure,
yeah, it's possible and in my opinion what that would take is they would need to identify and
overcome their core wound, heal it, dig deep down and find out exactly what it is
that's stopping them from being a normal healthy person.
What it is that's stopping them from having empathy for other people and then heal that problem and then learn empathy
again as though they were small children.
You will never see a narcissist do this in my opinion and from my research anybody that I have found who actually
claims a narcissist has changed,
inevitably what it all boils down to is that that person has been taught how to deal with the narcissist. The narcissist might have certain
behavior modifications in place,
but in general what it comes down to is that the person claiming a narcissist has changed has literally changed
themselves and the way they deal with the narcissist. I have not ever heard of a single narcissist successfully changing.
I stand by that statement and I've made it before. Have you personally ever run across anyone that was cured?. In terms of personality
disorder?. Narcissistic personalities specifically, yeah. No,
I mean I've heard... there's people on the internet who claimed it, but people on the internet claimed all kinds of things.
You know in the strength and conditioning community
I always joke you know, everybody you speak to online can squat double their body weight,
they can run 20 kilometres in under two hours. You can be whatever you want to be when behind the screen.
No, I've never, I've never seen it. So bottom line, can you make it work with a narcissist?
Well, you might make it so that you can tolerate it, but you're never gonna make it really, really good.
You're always gonna be lacking something and that's something in my opinion is validation from the narcissist.
It's not that you need validation from the narcissist,
it's just that everyone in every couple might need a little validation here and there and the narcissist is never gonna give it to you.
It is against the narcissist nature to give it to you and if you grew up in a home with a narcissist parent and now
you're with a narcissist partner, you're going to be starving for validation.
One of the best things you can do for yourself in this case is to start working on your
self-esteem and your self-worth and recognize that you can in fact
validate yourself and when you do that, you will take this whole thing to a whole new level,
I promise you that.
So now this brings me to the question of the day and
the question of the day is; Do you think that you can make it work with a narcissist or not?
Share your thoughts, share your ideas, share your experiences in the comments section below and let's talk about it.
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