I am Indy Neidell and this is a Great War special episode from Bolimow, Poland where
I sit here in the Chair of Wisdom (Polish Name for that) and talk about World War 1
archaeology with two World War 1 archaeologists.
And these two gentlemen are those World War 1 archaeologists .
Now, could you briefly introduce yourself and say a little bit about yourself.
Hello guys, I am Andrzej Pewniak, I am an archaeologist of the First World War.
Hi, I am Tomek Mysliwiec, I am also an archaeologist and a philosopher.
We're here in Bolimow, visiting, because this is where you are working and excavating.
Why Bolimow?
What significance does Bolimow have to the First World War?
The significance is that Bolimow is the place where the Germans first used gas on the Eastern Front.
There were four attacks: January 31, 1915.
It was xylyl-Bromide with dianisidine which causes sneezing and tears.
So, it wasn't anything like phosgene gas or anything?
No no no, it's something to disable the enemy soldiers.
The other attacks were on May 31, 1915, June 12 and 7th of July.
Those three attacks were with chlorine gas.
Now, the first attack though at the end of January, that failed, right?
It was too cold it failed to release?
Yes, this gas attack didn't work very well.
But there was a situation: The Germans captured the first Russian lines and there was fire
in the trenches and the fire has a higher temperature and made the gas actually work better.
And the Germans suffered from their own gas attack.
Only volunteers were in these trenches actually.
That was something I actually did not know.
But that was not the first time that anyone had used gas during the war.
The French first used tear gas as far back as August 1914.
Yeah, during the Battle of the Frontiers.
We didn't get to the really poisonous gas till later in 1915.
Now, what exactly do you do?
People watching, they gonna want to know what archaeologists do?
Are you just digging for aretefacts or how would you describe what your actual work is here?
Well, we are not just digging.
To be honest, digging is the last thing we are doing.
And we are starting from collecting all kind of data about these battle in many different
types of sources.
So, we have diaries, regimental chronicles and of course data that we produce.
For example by using laser scanning of the terrain surface.
And any other kind of data.
The diaries, which is interesting that you are mentioning these.
It just struck me, when you are reading, are thos Polish soldiers' diaries or do you find
diaries from the Germans or the Russians?
I mean since Poles fought on both sides?
Well, all diaries that we can get which concern this battle.
There are also historians in our team who are specialists in this period and this battle.
Why did you guys World War 1 archaeology, I mean you said that you actually studied
medieval history, like what I did before I ended up in World War 1 history, like you.
Is there any specific reason that drove either of you to cover just the First World War?
I really don't know.
It's a really interesting period.
Any types of archaeology and any other periods are well covered in archaeology.
And the First World War is quite unknown.
And I think it's not only like that in Poland but in other countries, too.
You are very right, which is one reason why we are doing this show.
And also there was a heck of a lot digging in the ground going on which we didn't see
in a lot of older periods.
You go through, you read the war diaries and the chronicles and the regimental histories
and you figure it out.
So, did you specifically said: "We are going to Bolimow and that's the next step on our
list" or did you pick this before reading about it or have you been reading up about
it and then decided, wow, Bolimow sounds interesting.
I mean why are you focusing on just Bolimow?
You shouldn't ask us this question but our professor Anna Zaleswska.
She is one of the specialists in modern archaeology and the archaeology of the First World War
and she just had the idea to explore these things.
The First World War was never explored in Poland before.
This is the first research because, as Tomek said, the First World War is not very well
popular in Poland.
Because there was no country like Poland because we had been occupied by the Germans, the Austro-Hungarians
and the Russians.
Lucky you!
People don't have much knowledge about this war.
And we are starting to research it and it could be a milestone.
I think so too.
I was lucky enough to see some of the stuff you are doing today.
Can you tell us a little bit about your methods?
I mean if it's just one excavation or if there are several excavations or how do you decide
specifically?
Things they might not know about how archaeologists actually work in the field.
We have several excavation sites.
They are spread between the forrest and the one on the field.
Because here in Bolimow we have the Bolimow Forrests which is a nature reserve in which
the trenches and dugouts and all those things from the war still are.
Pretty incredible!
After 100 years it just stays there and we are able to get inside the dugout or look
for the trench like we did today.
And the other sites are on the agricultural fields which are in some specific aspects
better preserved than those in the forrest.
There are many things here.
They are not visible on the surface if we didn't excavate them.
If we didn't see them, no one else did before us.
This is promising, we can find obtain good results here basically.
How would this be different from what we saw in the forrest?
In the forrest we see the structures that are visible even in the terrain.
Here on the field, nothing is visible right away because it's an agricultural field.
Here you have a piece of wood which could be an element of a trench wall.
Or it could be something else.
It could also be a door for example, stolen from one of the houses and used in the dugouts.
How big of a team do you have?
How do you put all this together, how did it get started?
Our project has ten constant members and co-investigators and some co-workers.
The amount is increasing or decreasing depending on the season.
Tell us about some of the things you found.
What kind of stuff is down there in the old trench networks?
We can find all kinds of things that are related to the First World War.
So, you maybe find a gun or ammunition shell casings?
It is possible to find all of that.
Also some kinds of personal objects of fallen soldiers.
Of course including dead soldiers too.
The remains of the soldiers, the bones.
How does that feel when you find these?
For archaeologists it's normal but for other people it could be shocking.
It would surprise me if I would be doing anything and find bones.
For example, in No Man's Land, we can find human remains but maybe only one leg and two
arms and one head.
Is it just the bones at this point after 100 years?
Yes, yes.
We are now on the second Russian line and you can see a wide trench with wood that survived
in these trenches.
It prevented the trenches to fill up with dirt.
The German trenches were over there on this side.
This place was chosen for excavation because of the bone remains.
They might not be human but we did not know that before.
Only after anthropological analysis we can say if it's human or not human.
And all around us, there are still human remains.
Last year we found two legs and then we have another digsite from last year where we found
a Russian sap and rifle firing position.
It was connected via a short communication trench.
Inside was a grave.
It was a grave of at least seven people, seven soldiers.
But they were not complete.
One part of this grave was only skulls and only hands in another part.
No spinal cord, no rib cage, nothing like that.
We interpreted that it was dug after a process of cleaning No Man's Land because of disease
prevention.
The people that dug this grave only put in there what they were able to find and collect,
a hand or head or something.
And the intestines just lay there in the field.
We are finding many, many remains here and no one is complete.
How do you go about?
I have obviously seeing you with the big shovels removing the dirt but how do you go about
excavating without damaging things that are in the ground?
How difficult is it to be slowly?
How does it work?
It's just a matter of doing it.
We are professionals, we are doing just an archaeological job like a TV show is just
a job for you.
Of course, when we find dead soldiers, we are very careful.
And this process is very slow.
To discover the whole skeleton is different than seeing where are the trenches or where
is the dugout.
We can see that on the ground.
Because darker colours are objects like dugouts or trenches.
Over that is light soil.
Why is it darker?
Obviously it has been filled in over the years.
But is it because has been filled in with top soil?
Why are the colours different?
Natural colours are light and when somebody digs there after years it gets dark.
Once you found the area that you are going to do the excavation?
How big are these areas?
Is it 200m by 300m?
Is it 10 by 15?
And how do you decide what to dig and how do you mark it out?
How do you do the action?
We are depending on our previous surveys.
For example geophysical data.
There is no possibility to open a trench that is a few hundred metres long.
It's rather 10 or 15 metres long and fewer wide.
Working specifically with World War 1 archaeology, is that something you see yourself continuing
for years or do you plan on spreading out and vary it?
I might do other documentaries, you know.
I don't know really.
Our project will take place this year and next year too.
And then we will think about writing something new.
But maybe even related to World War 1, too.
That was very interesting.
Thanks a lot for joining us.
Wait, hang on, it was Chair of Wisdom?
Thank you very much for joining me here in the Chair of Wisdom and it was a lot of fun
having you guys.
I am sure we will see you again.
See you next time.