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>> Hello everyone,
welcome to theCUBE Studios here in Palo Alto.
I'm John Furrier, the co-host of theCUBE,
co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media.
This is our CUBE Conversation Thought Leader Thursday
and I'm here with Val Bercovici, who's the
founder and CEO of a new startup called PencilDATA.
Val, CUBE alumni, been on many times with NetApp
and then a variety of other great startups,
but now you're doing your own thing
around cryptocurrency, blockchain,
enterprise-like technical infrastructure.
You've been a CTO, now entrepreneur,
founder and CEO of PencilDATA.
Congratulations, you're on the
crypto wave, this wave is coming.
>> I believe it's here.
>> It's here.
>> Timing couldn't be better.
>> So, I interviewed Dr. Jian Wang who's the
chairman of Alibaba's technology steering committee,
also the founder of Alibaba Cloud, just recently in China.
Presented by Intel, plug for Intel there,
thanks Intel for supporting theCUBE.
He said to me, and I put the clip out on Twitter,
natively on the video clip, which was,
I asked him about blockchain, you know China,
they blocked the ICOs, he said,
"Blockchain is fundamental, part of the Internet.
"It's as fundamental as TCP/IP was."
This is the nuance that is attracting
a lot of tier one entrepreneurs.
Obviously the money side is hyped up
beyond all recognition right now.
As Don Klein on our team was saying,
"It's melting up in terms of hype."
But this really speaks to the transformation of the web,
and the Internet now, the web is the Internet,
from distributed and decentralized.
This is a big sea change.
Kind of building on the fundamentals of the internet,
formerly called the information superhighway,
before the web came along, but the web was designed
to withstand nuclear disaster,
be resilient, be decentralized.
>> It reminds me of Back to the Future in many, many ways,
because if you're as old as we are,
you remember those DARPA origins of the Internet
and exactly that decentralized nature,
and we've gone away from that, right?
As Tim Berners-Lee brought on the HTTP protocol,
we've had web protocols, and as major,
the FANG vendors have really dominated their usage
of that existing layer of technology we've gone away,
we've gone to a very, very centralized approach,
which as we're seeing with the tech hearings this week,
carries all sorts of risks, it's not just
business and legal and political.
>> And you're referring to the senate hearings,
where Facebook, Google, or Alphabet, and Twitter
were in front of the senate committee,
you're going to tell them about the Russians,
the Russian political thing, but they're bringing up
the issue of the role of these mega platforms
that have all this data and the problem is that
this is not what the users bargained for.
I mean, I use Facebook as a free app,
I love Facebook, Facebook, we love you,
WhatsApp here and there, and Instagram,
but you know, my bargain was simple.
I'll use your free app and I'll let you use some of my data
but now you're making billions, $10 billion quarter,
fake news has infiltrated the country,
I have a poor user experience every day,
it's getting worse and worse, a lot of hate and division.
This is not what I bargained for.
>> Val: Exactly.
>> So the world's kind of revolting
against these mega-siloed platforms.
>> That's the risk of having such
centralized control of the technology.
If you remember in the old days
when Microsoft's dominance was rising,
all you had to do was target Windows as a virus platform
and you're able to impact thousands of businesses,
even in the early Internet days, within hours.
And it's the same thing happening right now,
there's a weaponization of these social media platforms
and Google's search engine technology and so forth.
It's the same side effect now,
the centralization of that control is the problem.
One of the reasons I love the blockstack technology,
and blockchain in general is the ability
to decentralize these things right now,
and the most passionate thing I care about nowadays
is being driven out of Europe,
where they have a lot more maturity
in terms of handling these new scenarios.
>> You mean the tech being driven out of Europe.
>> The laws. >> The laws, okay.
>> Being driven out of Europe.
>> Be specific, we'd like an example.
>> The major deadline that's coming up in May 25th of 2018
is GDPR, General Data Protection Regulation,
where European citizens now in any company,
American or otherwise, catering to European citizens,
has to respond to things like the
right to be forgotten request.
You've got 24 hours, as a global corporation
with European operations, to respond to European citizens',
EU citizens', right to be forgotten request,
where all the personally identifiable information,
the PII, has to be removed and an audit trail,
proving it's been removed, has to be gone from
two, three hundred internal systems within 24 hours.
And this has teeth by the way, it's not like the
$2.7 billion fine that Google just flipped away casually,
this has up to 4% of your global profits per incident
where you don't meet that requirement.
>> Well you bring up a good point,
the GDPR is a good one, it has teeth
and it's kind of in the weeds with
the folks who might not know that regulation,
but really it's about the privacy
and the rights of the individual.
But coming back to Facebook, to connect another dot is,
what we're seeing with Facebook, Twitter,
and Alphabet with the senate hearings is,
and this is why the industry and the media is crumbling,
publications are dying, the newspapers,
the media's changing, is because
knowing your customer is a really important thing.
The people who want to be served
need to have a closed loop with the publication,
and these platforms are bogarting all the data,
and so the right of the customer, the users are suffering,
and that's what people are generally talking about.
You know, personally, a guy can rent a truck
and go mow people down in Manhattan,
we should know who these people are, like the neighbors,
so I think there's going to be a trend towards
knowing who your neighbor is, knowing who the customers are,
at a level that's not scary privacy violation,
but we're going to know who the crazies are,
we're going to know what's going on and then
that's kind of out there, that's kind of my general feeling.
But now, getting back to the impact.
GDPR, these big mega platforms where the users
are at the center of the value proposition,
really comes down to the shift in user expectations
around a decentralized Internet.
That means agile goes to a whole other level.
If I'm a user and I say, "Hey Facebook,
"delete my digital exhaust or digital footprints
"from Facebook over the past 10 years."
I mean, that's hard to do.
>> That's hard for them.
>> That's not, technically is a really serious problem.
>> And it's actually not just a technology challenge,
I always love to go back to Conway's Law
in these discussions, the org chart, you know,
how information, infrastructure is budgeted for,
and managed through various different departments
within any large enterprise, data-savvy or not,
is a challenge, as is coordinating these efforts,
actually going beyond the talking phase,
towards implementing a master data model.
Those are the main challenges right now,
and it's a movement that I believe now has
political strength to actually migrate across the pond.
Over here as well there's a groundswell movement
called Digital Sovereignty as a response to GDPR in Europe,
where people are realizing that they have the right
to be sovereign over their data, their digital exhaust,
their digital footprints online and that's a two-way street.
You want and demand control over your data,
but on the other hand your identity, which you control,
has to be authentic as opposed to a fake identity,
and your reputation has to be out there as well.
>> These signals and these trends you were just referring to,
to me are just like little tremors of the tectonic plates
that are going to be changing,
because if you look at the major shift in technology,
let's take blockchain for instance,
and look at the impact of a decentralized internet,
now global, immutability with the ability
now for more agile capability and not just permanent,
"I want to erase things" that you're talking about,
but three, the younger generation,
if we look at what the young kids are doing,
I have four kids, my oldest is 22,
it's a gaming culture, right?
It's a gaming culture, they're online all the time.
They're not old like us, my son's like,
"Dad, Google Search is for old people."
I mean, that's a general sentiment, over-categorizing,
but a combination of the new user experience,
this younger generation, entrepreneurs and users,
and these tremors we're seeing
in the marketplace, signaling that,
"hey Facebook, you might be too big for your britches,"
or, "hey Twitter, you got a bot problem,
"hey all you gamers using Twitch,"
this is now a signal, where is it leading to?
And where does blockchain in particular impact it?
Because this is kind of where everything's converging to.
>> So what I'd like to say right now is,
you've got Marc Andreessen's premise
that software is eating the world.
If you extend that, data is feeding it,
blockchain is valuing it, and it's AI that's automating it.
So in my mind, particularly in my experience
earlier this year in the AI industry, you realize that
AI today really boils down to machine learning,
which in itself boils down to deep learning,
which boils down to data, your access to data.
Professor Andrew Wang did this at the recent
O'Reilly conference up in the city,
he got up and lectured as the keynote
instead of sharing slides and his number one, two, and three
advice to everyone in the audience was,
get the right datasets to train your model.
If you don't have that you don't have a differentiated
business, and that's what inspired PencilDATA,
is my encountering of the cold start AI problem where
the IP's in a public domain, public datasets are ubiquitous
which is fantastic for academics, but as a business
you can't differentiate unless you have access to
the right datasets to train your models more specifically.
>> Okay, as the founder and CEO of PencilDATA,
that's your new startup, let's get into
some of the reasons why you're starting it.
What problem are you attacking?
Obviously a pencil, I can see pencil
and you erase things, it's got data...
>> The internet is no longer written in ink,
that's the premise. Now with Pencil you can erase some data.
>> Well blockchain is immutable,
so this is conflicting in my mind.
Help me kind of rationalize this.
The benefit of blockchain is everything's permanent,
if you're on-chain as they say.
>> Exactly.
>> If you're off-chain, you could do some things.
Is that kind of what we're getting at?
>> We're mixing the best of both.
So our premise is that again, whether you're
an organization or an individual, you need to have,
to survive in a new digital economy, control over your data.
The blockchain part of it is the visibility side.
If you don't know who's doing what to your data,
you're far less likely to share it.
And once you know who's doing what to your data,
in an immutable blockchain, with a detailed audit trail,
with strong authentication, of literally
who's doing what to your data, gives you that visibility.
Then you do what modern asset managers do.
You can't really value an asset until you fully control it.
And our premise is, you can't control
something until you can take it back.
So the notion of PencilDATA is the ability to go
on-chain for the visibility and off-chain for
managing data in encrypted containers,
and if a data owner or publisher doesn't like how
the subscriber's consuming their data,
they have the power to revoke all downloaded copies.
>> So is this kind of like a shadow blockchain model?
I'm trying to find a mental model
because I remember the old days back,
I was breaking into the industry in the late '80s,
early '90s, WORM drives, write once, read many.
And you write it once, it's a laser,
it was optical drives at the time.
Also, demilitarized zones in networking
was an area where there was a safe harbor kind of thing,
where people could play around.
What metaphor, what mental model can people take away
from some of the things that you're trying to solve?
Is it like a DMZ, is it like a--
>> The implementation's a lot like a DMZ and
the business challenge and opportunity is that
there's a lot of tension between protecting data,
because we have an epidemic of data breaches right now,
I think you're foolish if you're assuming that
you haven't been breached yet but you might be,
because everyone has been breached,
personally and organizationally,
so we have to deal with the rising need
to protect data more and more.
But at the same time, you can't stay in business
if you don't optimize the monetization of the data you have.
And so PencilDATA walks that fine line between letting you
do both, letting you not just protect infrastructure,
that's a whole other industry that we're not involved in,
but literally protect data at the data level.
If you look up terms like crypto anchor you'll see
some of the technologies we're taking advantage of there.
But being able to monetize data by unlocking
all that latent value of data hidden behind firewalls.
If you use a physics analogy of potential and
kinetic energy, applied to data behind firewalls,
there's hundreds of billions of dollars
of value in latent data basically,
potential data hiding behind firewalls,
and when you can safely share it,
give the owners control they've never had before,
then you expose the value of that data for the first time.
>> Alright, so let's take us through where you're at.
Obviously super exciting, you're leveraging the blockchain
and you've got an ICO, initial coin offering coming up
but you're not just doing that for the sake of doing,
there's a lot of scams out there, you're taking
a little bit more of a pragmatic approach.
Give us the status because you're the founder and CEO,
what's the makeup of the team, how big are you guys,
what are you guys looking for,
obviously you're looking for team members most likely.
>> We're looking for developers obviously.
>> Where in the process are you?
>> We are a two-month-old company. We're at the seed stage.
And we've actually assembled a world-class team.
You hear that a lot, but I'm really, really proud
of the team members we have right now.
>> World-class, are they from around the world
and then they have class? Define world-class.
>> They're worldly, like myself, I travel a lot. (laughter)
An example, my chief privacy officer is Sheila Fitzpatrick,
she's a worldwide recognized leader in data privacy,
she's on many, many privacy boards
in the US and EU and so forth, and she now is traveling
nonstop lecturing on GDPR, itself specifically.
She's one of those recognized--
>> Should you see yourself as a solution for GDPR,
because that's, again, it does have teeth,
I'll just say that we've been reporting on this through
Wikibon, our research team as well as theCUBE,
it comes up all the time and there's heavy fines
associated with it, so it's not like-
>> GDPR is the perfect use case
because on the one hand, we have that audit trail
that proves what you're doing with data.
On the other hand we have a kill switch,
that revocable use clause for data where you can
literally comply with GDPR in minutes or seconds,
as opposed to take a full 24 hours to
scour database and delete selected records.
>> Alright, so what about the product?
Give us an example of the product. Will you be,
first of all that's right around the corner, it's next year.
>> Val: Yeah.
>> I think it was a March or April's timeframe,
I don't have the exact date but it's pretty soon.
>> Public beta before the end of this year,
version 1.0 first of second quarter next year.
>> For you guys, PencilDATA.
>> Yes.
>> Clients, are you working with
anyone right now, you have a handful?
>> So we've actually got really interesting
distribution partnerships that we're not in a
position to announce right now but
the top-tier brand name enterprise cloud vendors,
both on the SaaS and infrastructure and database side,
they're lining up to work with us.
Because we're enabling amazing use cases
in healthcare and life sciences,
the ability to selectively share patient data
with insurers, with healthcare providers,
clinical trials now to share more information
through differential privacy and collectively
have more data to be processed and analyzed.
Use cases are just off the charts.
>> Well you know we go to all the big data shows,
we're horizontally scaled on the event site circuit,
but this is the number one thing that comes up,
I want to move from batch marketing, batch process,
batch business to real-time business, speed is essential,
but it's always been a conflict between,
how do I enable data to move really fast and be
available for applications but protecting the privacy.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you solve that problem, is that something
that you see yourselves solving?
>> We aren't necessarily innovating on speed,
of data movement, it's going to be a SaaS service.
>> So it's availability model.
>> It's availability of data that's really
never been shared before and I think that's the key here,
is we know there's a lot of value
locked up behind corporate firewalls.
The irony is, we don't even have
to sell this outside firewalls initially,
when you go to any medium-to-large size enterprise
that has more than one site or more than one department,
Sales doesn't trust Marketing and vice versa,
Engineering doesn't trust Customer Support,
neither of the four of them trust each other,
so we're actually going to enable
more data shared within an enterprise at first.
>> So that's a starting point for you guys.
>> That's a starting point, that's the easiest
low-hanging fruit sale we have.
>> Well PencilDATA, it's great stuff, Val,
congratulations on that startup.
I mean, you've got a world-class management team,
and this kind of brings up a point that I've been
banging on theCUBE pretty much every time I go out
I'll talk about blockchain and ICO because you know,
theCUBE is a very decentralized audience and that's
a value that we're looking at as well with blockchain.
I've got to ask you the personal question, from your own
personal perspective, experience, executive and CTO,
why is blockchain attracting so many A players?
Because you're seeing a lot of what I call A players,
entrepreneurs, technical geeks, really jumping into this
because they can see it, they can smell the opportunity,
and also, it also attracts the scammers as well,
but specifically, why are these A players coming in?
Is it, what are you hearing, what's the
general vibe, what's the anecdotal reason?
>> So as you said earlier on, it's a fundamental
evolution of the core internet as a technology,
as fundamental as HTTP and web was
on top of TCP/IP back 20 years ago,
but it's got that rare combination of not only being
a technical innovation that empowers new use cases
on the web, on the internet, it's also got
immediate, amazing business applications
as a store of value initially, as an actual valuation
of various business processes, or datasets in my case,
as an ability to exchange that value so transparently,
so, in such a friction-less liquid manner,
those are some of the amazing innovations
it brings to the table and I think the most important
thing is not to think of this as being able to do
digital transformation or faster analog,
it's about completely reimagining
the exchange of value, measurement of value, and
new kinds of businesses that just weren't possible before.
>> And at all points of the stack, not the low levels
and at the application level, the business logic,
and to the geek side, right?
>> Absolutely.
>> You agree. I mean, that's great and as you know,
theCUBE is looking at a blockchain ICO
on down the horizon so keep an eye out for that,
CUBEcoins could be in everyone's future,
so we're super excited like you.
>> I'm looking forward to your presale,
just like I'm looking forward to mine.
(laughing)
>> Well, we'll see. But the bottom line is that
this is what the reality is, you know,
reimagining the applications is what people are thinking
and I think people should beware of the scams out there,
and then final question I want to ask you is,
obviously we're both in the community
together, with our teams.
Share your perspective on the ecosystem,
because obviously decentralization will change
the nature of traditional ecosystems.
>> Very much so.
>> What's your vision on how the ecosystem will evolve,
and how big is it now relative to these early markets?
>> We're actually starting to enter the middle innings
of the cloud game, if you will, we're seeing a very
good maturity, a good diversification of profitable
earnings and outcomes for the major cloud players,
so I think we've gone well down the cloud path so far.
But the decentralized world is in its infancy.
It's embryonic right now.
And I've always been a proponent of the multi-cloud
environment and a multi-cloud world,
and decentralization fundamentally is based on
and depends on a multi-cloud, not just multi-region,
but multi-data-center-in-a-closet scenario as well,
to be able to actually have a democratic model for
determining where the value is,
where the value isn't, blockchain node style.
And that is incredibly exciting to me,
because that really cements this
rebalancing of the pendulum between core and edge
in terms of where processing and value happens.
>> Yeah, and value exchange obviously now,
markup links are becoming the du jour way
to exchange value, users are in control,
infrastructure equilibrium is interesting.
Great stuff. And I'll say, perfect storm for innovation.
The waves are coming. (laughing)
>> You know, one thing I've learned over the years is,
the innovation, change never stops.
There's always an opportunity to innovate,
and that's what I love about this movement.
>> Blockchain, ICO, PencilDATA, check 'em out,
Val Bercovici, founder and CEO, great friend of theCUBE,
also really strong CTO, check these guys out.
This wave of innovation around blockchain ICOs
and infrastructure, reimagining,
the future is here upon us at theCUBE,
be right back with more, thanks for watching.
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