- Did you put?
- Product. The same product I always use.
Why? What's wrong?
- Your hair's just kind of flat.
- [Mother] What have you done to this damn hair?
- [Child] I'm sorry, Ow!
- Just see where it goes, they said.
A therapist said that? Just see where it goes?
that's some crap. I'm tired of saying...
(upbeat music)
- Hi, I'm Alicia Decker.
Co-founder of Mended Light.
- And I'm Jonathan Decker, licensed therapist
and also co-founder of Mended Light.
- Lucky.
- I'm lucky because I'm with you.
Aww.
- Oh, you're kidding.
That's so sweet.
- So we asked, we asked our viewers,
what are some of the most ridiculous things
a therapist has said to them?
The most harmful things that a therapist has said to them,
and one was in a casual relationship
that you should just take it easy and see where it goes.
Now, on the surface of that, that seems like,
you know, pretty decent advice,
that's how a lot of people look at it,
but I see it differently.
I mean, I think when you have a casual relationship,
you need to establish boundaries,
otherwise things are going to get out of hand.
What do you think?
- Well, it just depends.
I mean, yeah. I agree with you.
I think boundaries absolutely have to be established.
And even if that boundary is
we're friends with benefits,
or we're both looking for...
- Like us.
- Exactly.
(laughter)
- Or we're both looking for a more serious relationship,
like it's not that there's a right or wrong boundary to set.
It's more about both people being on the same page,
having the same boundary and that being clear.
- Are we clear?
- Crystal.
- You're a planner.
- I am.
- What happens when people just see where things go?
Like not even talking about casual relationships,
just like in life, what, what tends to happen?
- Yeah.
(laughter)
- So I love the line from Alice in Wonderland
that if you don't know where you want to go,
any road will take you there.
And I think that basically sums it up.
- Yeah.
- It really doesn't matter which way you go.
- Well, cause even in casual relationships,
you need to know what are you looking for?
Are you looking for fun?
Are you looking for companionship?
Are you looking just to, you know,
casual hookup or are you looking to get to know this person?
and it could evolve into something more later on?
You have to know. Okay, it's casual now,
but what does that mean moving forward?
So the first thing I would say is don't start
like on a first, second date
saying what do you want out of this relationship?
What do you want out of life? How many kids do you want?
- That's a little intense.
- [Stewardess] Calm down, get a hold of yourself.
- [Man] Stewardess, please, let me handle this.
(man grumbling, woman crying)
- Now...
- Red flags.
- Now, you went on some dates.
(imitating siren)
(laughter)
I love it.
So you went on some dates
- Some.
- Before we met, a couple here and there.
- Occasionally.
- Anyone ever come on too strong, too fast?
And I'm not talking about physically,
I'm talking about like they wanted to get serious
or they wanted to talk about your,
you know, how many kids do you want or...
- Yeah. No.
- You're lying.
(laughter)
- No, no. I was saying no, I don't want to talk about that.
- Oh, you don't want to talk about that in the video?
- No, no. On a date, like that.
- Oh, I see.
- It was intense. They did, it was too intense.
And I don't wanna...that's intense, that's intense.
- We have a very clear communication.
We're always on the same page.
- You feel. Love.
- So, did that tend to lead to second dates? Third dates?
- No, no.
- Why not?
- So, you know, I heard the question one time.
What is the one reason that relationships end?
Like, if you could sum up the reason all relationships end.
- Death.
- No, that wasn't the answer, but that's morbid.
(laughter)
- You played very well, dad.
- No, but it's differing expectations, right?
You know, if the expectation from the one person
is that they're looking for their soulmate and...
- Yeah.
- And the other person is, you know,
has goals when it comes to career, school,
whatever it is,
they're not looking for their soulmate.
And so that's where having the conversation
to get your expectations on the same page,
- Yeah.
- Because if one person leads very strongly
with drastically different expectations,
it's a huge turnoff to the other person.
- Yeah. Especially if the other person either, you know,
puts their foot down equally strong
and then it's a big thing
or they just retreat and say, okay,
we'll do whatever you want.
I mean, and I think the conversation
needs to happen early.
Just not like first or second date.
- Yeah.
- You know.
- Because there's nothing, there's nothing to go off of.
Like, where do you see this going?
- Well, and I see it as...
- Nowhere.
(laughter)
- I see it going nowhere because I don't know you.
- Because we're having coffee or dinner and yeah,
absolutely.
Well, and I look at this, like,
you want to give it a few dates or a few outings
or whatever the kids call it these days we're hanging out,
whatever you're doing.
You want to give it a few, a few weeks, at least
before you have this conversation,
because you don't even know right out of the gate,
if you want to have any sort of relationship
with this person,
you might think, oh, there's chemistry here.
But that doesn't mean you have that conversation.
You know, you need time to get to know this person
to see if, okay, is this a conversation I want to have?
- Well, and there's conversations to actually have
with the other person about setting boundaries,
but it's really important to know
what your own boundaries are.
And as you mentioned earlier, I'm such a planner.
So when I was in college,
I had a really strict rule because it's,
once again, it's not about right wrong, good, bad.
It's about knowing what your needs are and then building
a life that fits those needs and what works for you.
- Yeah.
- So I'm, I'm not a NCMO kind of person.
What is NCMO?
- NCMO is a Utah term for non-committal make-out.
- Yeah. So I'm, I'm not a physical touch
without commitment kind of person.
- You're a CMO person.
- Yeah. So I don't, I don't want to make out with you.
I don't want to sleep with you.
Like, just for the fun of it.
That's that's not my MO.
That is totally cool if that is your MO.
And so for me, my boundary, you know,
when it came to dating, getting to know people,
things like that, is that I would not have, like,
I didn't want to kiss him.
I didn't want to make out with him, anything like that,
unless I had known them for at least a month.
And I had gone on three dates with them.
- Yeah.
- Like, that was my personal boundary between,
I'm not going to get physically involved
until this time period has passed.
- Until I actually get to know you and see, yeah.
- Yeah. And that's what that looked like for me.
And so it had to be a month and at least three dates.
- And if someone comes out swinging
on the first or second date,
and they're talking about how many kids do you want to have?
Or where do you see this going?
I mean, to me, that's a sign.
I want your thoughts on this.
That they're more in love with the idea of love
than with you,
because they haven't had a chance to fall in love with you
and get to know you. So it's really,
I don't know if you have anything to add to that.
- I would agree.
- All right.
I was interested in her thoughts
and her thoughts were my thoughts.
Sometimes we're completely in sync
and sometimes we're backstreet.
(upbeat music)
- Now, once you're, I mean, for Alicia, it was a month.
There's a great book called
How to Avoid Falling in Love With a Jerk
that says that it takes at least 90 days
for someone to show you who they are.
Now, I'm not saying you wait 90 days
to start having a relationship with someone.
I think a month is a good, is a good byline,
but you don't like race to the finish line in a month.
You say, okay, now we're starting something.
- Right. In the book you referenced,
it talks about the stages of getting to know someone.
And if you rush into physical connection,
physical touch too quickly,
it shades the rest of your relationship.
And so that was like, you know,
when I made that decision that, you know,
I was just a kid still, like I was a teenager.
Like, I didn't know.
I didn't know that data,
I didn't know the statistics behind it,
but basically I didn't want, you know,
rushing too quickly into a physical relationship
of any kind,
like even just holding hands or kissing
to shade the way I saw that person.
- Here's your science fact really fast for why that is.
When we are physically involved with somebody,
the brain releases dopamine,
which is a pleasure hormone. Weee!
- Weee!
(laughter)
- But it also releases oxytocin and vasopressin,
which are bonding hormones.
And so when you get physically involved with someone
very early,
you bond with them psychologically,
emotionally, chemically,
which if you don't actually know them
can lead you to think that you are more in love with them
than you actually are.
It gets all like you were saying,
it gets all murky and confusing.
- Well, and it's worth noting that
if you do that repeatedly, right,
if you just hook up with people.
- Casual hookups over and over and over and over.
- The opposite happens and you don't become attached.
- Yes.
- And we are biologically wired to be committed,
to procreate, to do these things.
And if your behavior isn't in line with,
with that biology to protect yourself,
it will, it will shut down those bonding hormones.
- Yeah. Like, if you bond and then separate
and bond and then separate,
the brain's going to say, oh,
sex or making out or whatever is,
I was connected to this person, now I lost them.
That was painful.
So I'm going to feel less connected next time.
It's just going to be about pleasure.
And the dopamine will be released, but not the oxytocin,
not the vasopressin.
So each casual hookup leads to less and less emotional
bonding and where physicality becomes that's,
that's all there is.
- Right.
- And you can slowly get that back. But I mean, if,
if you were in a committed relationship with somebody
the brain can re-associate it with bonding
and with, you know, being close with someone,
but the flip side of that is it's hard to stay faithful
to a person when you've become accustomed to the variety,
the variety show.
So have the conversation early on.
When we talk about casual relationships,
casual means different things to different people.
We referenced this at the beginning.
Does casual mean to you I'm just looking for a physical,
Hey, I'm just looking for a good time.
- Friends with benefits.
- Friends with benefits. There's a country song
that is not our relationship at all,
but we sing it all the time, which is,
Hey, I'm just looking for a good time. Like a casual hookup.
(laugher)
We love slightly trashy country songs. Don't judge us.
- My kids know all the words.
- Yeah. They don't know what it means.
(laughter)
- Are you looking for a casual hookup?
Are you looking for, well,
we can see where this goes,
but I'm not super open to a relationship right now,
or I will never love again, right?
Or, yeah, this could be serious later on,
but let's just take it easy. Take it slow.
That's part of that conversation
because when you just say, keep it casual,
that means different things to different people.
- What's most important is that you're clear
on your boundaries with yourself.
And then when the time is right expressing what your needs
are, or those boundaries to the other person
and that it's respected and reciprocated.
And if not, that is a huge red flag.
- Sometimes you say to me, when I fail to communicate
and it's ironic because I'm a therapist,
but you'll say to me with love and a little bit of
a little bit of edge, you'll say:
communication, it's a thing.
(laughter)
- It's a thing.
- And it's important at every stage of,
of this to communicate where you're at and what you want.
You know, part of a casual relationship, okay
if it's casual, how exclusive are we?
Are we dating other people?
Are we being physical with other people?
Are we just seeing each other, but keeping it casual?
What does that mean?
Again, if you don't have the conversation,
you may be arriving at very different conclusions
like Ross and Rachel with "we were on a break!"
- We were on a break!
- Right, that meant two different things to them.
So you gotta be very clear and very specific.
How physical are you going to be?
Alicia had a very clear boundary of
I'm not going to kiss somebody until I've known them
at least a month. Right?
And so if someone tried to kiss you...
- And three dates.
- And three dates. So, if someone tried to kiss you
on the second date, and it had been three weeks.
Would you specifically say this is my role?
Or would you...?
- Oh no. Just, just...
- Just. Just. Just back it on up.
- Just push them away.
- Yeah. Just push them away. Okay.
- Awkward!
- I would recommend having the conversation.
Like, I like you, but here's my rule.
And here's why,
but you know, I, I actually,
a girl tried to kiss me
- Aha.
- That I didn't want to be kissed by.
And I, she got this close and I put my hand on her forehead
and I stopped her.
This is a real thing that happened.
- It's just hurtful.
- I put my hand right there
and just kept her from kissing me.
It was...
(laughter)
No, I'm not going to do that to you.
You guys want to see some action?
- 20 minutes later.
- All right.
We're back.
- If you've,
(laughter)
if you've enjoyed this video, check out our video:
Do What Makes You Feel Good, They Said.
- Yeah, that just happened.
So this has been the ... therapist say,
we hope that you've enjoyed this episode.
If you are digging what we're doing here at Mended Light,
we're trying to reach and help and serve
as many people as we can.
So please like, comment, subscribe,
click the little bell, ringy dingy
so you get notified every time.
So you don't miss a thing.
Most importantly, you know people who are struggling,
you know people who need what we're doing here.
So please pass this along.
So until next time, I'm Jonathan Decker.
- I'm Alicia Decker.
And remember to keep shining, we need your light.
- Oh look, here it comes.
It's that video Alicia was telling you about.
You got 10 minutes to kill, don't ya?
You're just sitting around killing time,
waiting for your bus or something.
I don't know what you're doing, but watch the vid.