Let's see, grave how to find accurate market value using what i think is a fair dollars
but can't get past the recruiter or ats uh try not to give a number but one have to they're insistent
okay i'm going to give you a really simple one here don't you try to figure all that out okay you
you don't know what's fair so so 40 000 increase 60 000 increase double your pay 47 increase
you know from from somebody who mentioned it today right like
you have no idea what the number is you just don't okay so don't try racking your brain
okay let's i'm gonna i i wanna say this grave this is i'm glad that you kind of tipped me over here
i haven't said this to you guys in a long time this is a really great question it really is
because you just don't know what market value is which is why i tell you there
is no such thing as market pay there isn't any organization that claims that they know what a
fair market pay is for this project manager or that architect or that technologist
is clueless they they don't know it how could they possibly know
here's what happens they know what they're paying their people they might have even paid money to
the kennedy group or some other company that goes out and surveys people or looked at glassdoor
to come up with some number that they should be paying and what's wrong with doing that
number one that group that company that survey that online whatever is pulling data from a go
ten minutes ago ten months ago or whenever but it's a go right that's in the past and that's
trailing and that is not an indication of what i need to pay to get somebody in my seat today
i gotta pull somebody from somewhere else or right i gotta entice them enough well i have to pay her
47 percent more i have to pay him 40 000 more no no survey is going to tell you that
okay so then it comes down to hand-to-hand combat at a moment in time right now you're asking me
well andy how do i know where to start you don't which is why you don't give them a number what
do you do when you get into an interview process you keep asking questions so you can keep getting
more information so that before you open your mouth and stick your foot in it you have more
information to know not to stick your foot in your mouth okay so then they say well hang on a second
and you're gonna say annie they're forcing me to tell them then you say i don't know
pick a number for me tell me what your budget is give me whatever you start you go first
if you're insistent that i give you a number then you must have some number in mind so you
can check your little box so that i can fit into it right what's your budget give me that number
and then you just accept it at that moment in time because the fight hasn't started okay at
this moment paying any attention to what they tell you is gonna do one of a couple things to you it's
going to throw you off your game because you're all bummed out because you think you deserve 50
000 more okay right or you're going to lock in mentally it's called price anchoring but it's a
similar analogy but that's what we do as buyers and we think they're only going to pay me 60 000
so now you go through the whole process and you're not on your game instead of instead of one of two
things is always present at the time somebody is speaking in the beginning of the process about
what the salary is going to be if the company says it's 60 000 that's what we want to pay
or it's between 50 and 70 or whatever that's what they think they want to pay at that moment in time
for who they think should fulfill those duties that's how that's determined
it's based on history not projection except you're working when in the future not in the past
okay that's what they think what are you going to do about it you're going to take what they tell
you and you're going to realize that if that's not enough money for you or that's not acceptable
or you're not comfortable earning that amount of money for what you're going to contribute
you get the whole interviewing process to do what change their mind about the value of that position
who they think can solve what problems they have or the challenges that they need to overcome
and the value they're going to realize based on what you've shown them you can do or will do so
i think somebody with this level of skills who's got about this many years of experience who i've
generally seen do these things earns about 60 grand a year to do that and that's how i value
the position okay now you need to show them that you have more expertise and with that expertise
can make more things happen than what they expect you you you want me to do this but i can actually
do this okay so now for this because i'm going to prove to you that i can do this this is more
valuable okay this is more valuable which means i should get paid more now you don't say it that way
but you're going to show them well i'm going to be able to contribute i'm going to be able to do
wait it doesn't need to be this guess what it can be this and you could get paid more why because i
don't i don't need to take eight hours to do that job i can do that job in one hour what do you want
me to do with the other seven right this is the stuff that goes on in the interviewing process
but a lot of you quit immediately because you're worried about what number you're giving them or
what number they gave you that's not the fight that just throws you off your game the fight's
way down at the end and it's not when they give you the offer it's when you go back to
them and explain to them why you're worth more i mean it drives me nuts that people do this
you leave money on the table you leave jobs on the table because you quit
because of something you heard or something you believed or something that they believed
but they're not the ones deciding what you get paid no recruiters deciding that no
hr person unless you're joining their team right so when going back to grave situation
don't give them a number and if if all they need is uh an agreement to a number they
don't need your number they need at a minimum and agreement to to their number and you just
agree up front and then you're gonna say well andy when i get all the way down to the end
well i told him that that was okay now what that's right you did tell them that was okay and you gave
him an answer because they pressed you and you gave him an answer based on what you knew at
the time and guess what you know a lot more now right well we live in a whole new world than we
did three weeks ago right i met seven people none of them on the team can do what i can do
and you wanted me to do this and i'm gonna show you i can do that what's that worth to you okay
yeah that was a sixty thousand dollar your job this is an eighty thousand dollar a year job
and you have to make some argument that that that you are worth that and if you don't wanna stay
there and fight fight through the interviewing process to prove that i'm okay with that but i'm
telling you that you don't need to just take what they tell you it's they they want to pay you need
to decide do i want to work here badly enough am i going to put in the effort to go through this
process to prove to them that i'm worth way more that's what that's what you do it's not because
you just want 80 it's because you're worth it so you need to make the case a lot of this stuff
and a lot of the interaction of how to do this is probably the single greatest thing that i spend
time on in one-on-one coaching sessions with people is helping them figure this out how to
make the argument what exactly to say and when the employer says something you say this if they say
that if they say this you say this we go through all this and it's really hard to do in general
but the point is that you have to recognize that these things are malleable they might not
be at the moment in time because that recruiter needs to check a box you get days weeks or months
to change their mind they always have just recap this they always have two issues one here's what
i think i want to pay for the problems that i need to solve and here's who i think can solve it you
get the interview process to turn both of those things on their head it's i know you thought this
was the person to solve it but i'm the person to solve it and i am far more equipped and i'll
tell you one last thing and i know i'm really rolling on here but once they see you they can't
unsee you you can reset their mind about what that position should be worth okay this is this happens
every day for somebody's willing to take the time to do that but if you say well no that job just
pays this and that's what they told me well then you're just you're living in the world that god
gave you instead of creating the world that you want boy did i roll off on that but you know what
i i just i needed it i needed to let you know what i needed to let that one go so grave 79
you don't need to give a number all right
you