CHAIRMAN ADAM SCHIFF IS HERE
LATER.
WE BEGIN WITH NEW REPORTING FROM
"THE WASHINGTON POST" ON THE
HIGH-STAKES INVESTIGATION OF
THIS TRUMP ORGANIZATION IN NEW
YORK.
TONIGHT IS ALSO THE EVE OF THE
NEW YORK PRIMARY FOR D.A.
A REMINDER THAT THE CURRENT
D.A., CY VANCE, LEAVES OFFICE IN
SUFFICIENT SEVEN MONTHS WHICH
SETS THAT TIME PERIOD AS THE
LIKELY DEADLINE FOR ANY
DECISIONS ON CHARGING ALLEGED
CRIMINAL CONDUCT OF THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION.
ALLEN WEISSELBERG HAS BEEN SEEN
DUTIFULLY GOING INTO WORK AT
TRUMP TOWER.
HOW HE IS BALANCING THOSE JOB
DUTIES AGAINST HUGE PRESSURE
FROM PROSECUTORS FOR EVIDENCE
AGAINST TRUMP WITH REPORTS THAT
HE CONTINUES TO RESIST
COOPERATING.
ONE D.A. VETERAN LIKENING HIS
APPROACH TO PLAYING RUSSIAN
ROULETTE WITH PRISON TIME.
A SERIOUS GAME FOR A
74-YEAR-OLD.
"THE POST" REPORTING REINFORCES
THE PICTURE FROM A RECENT "NEW
YORK TIMES" ACCOUNT ABOUT
CHARGES AS NEAR AS THIS SUMMER.
ALSO NEW "THE WALL STREET
JOURNAL" REPORTING PROSECUTORS
ARE INVESTIGATING WHETHER
TRUMPS FORMER BODYGUARD WHO WAS
A TRUMP EXECUTIVE RECEIVED HIS
OWN TAX-FREE FRINGE BENEFITS AND
WHETHER THAT IS A SCANDAL OR
WORSE, A CRIME.
THERE IS PLENTY OF BAD NEWS IN
ALL THESE DEVELOPMENTS FOR
TRUMP.
BUT IF WIESEISSELBERG STANDS TAL
AGAINST THE D.A., IT COULD GIVE
DONALD TRUMP THE OUT HE NEEDS.
WITHOUT WEISSELBERGS
COOPERATION, ITS UNCLEAR
WHETHER PROSECUTORS WOULD BE
ABLE TO ESTABLISH ANY REQUIRED
INTENT ON TRUMPS PART IN
CRIMES.
SO YES, THERE IS HEAT ON
WEISSELBERG, A LOT OF IT.
BUT THERES ALSO HEAT ON THE
PROSECUTORS BECAUSE TRUMP KEPT
SUCH A SMALL FINANCIAL CIRCLE,
WHICH MEANS VERY FEW PEOPLE CAN
SPEAK TO HIS DECISIONS.
THAT SAME "WASHINGTON POST"
ARTICLE INCLUDES A POINT WE
FIRST REPORTED LAST YEAR ON "THE
BEAT."
DAN ALONZO TOLD US ABOUT THIS
OTHER LEGAL ROAD WHERE AS "THE
POST" PUTS IT THE D.A. HAS THE
OPTION TO INDICT COMPANIES
RATHER THAN INDIVIDUALS.
NOW, THAT WOULD SPLIT THE
PROVERBIAL LEGAL BABY IF
WEISSELBERG GIVES UP NOTHING BUT
IF THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE FOR
PROSECUTORS TO INDICT HIM AND
THE COMPANY AS A FIRST STEP BY
DECEMBER TO THEN SEE WHAT THE
PLAYERS WOULD DO THEN.
JOINING US RIGHT NOW IS NYU LAW
PROFESSOR MELISSA MURRAY AND
FORMER RNC CHAIR MICHAEL STEELE.
PROFESSOR, YOUR VIEW OF THE
COMBINED PICTURE WERE GETTING
FROM EACH OF THESE REPORTS ABOUT
THE PROBE?
>> WELL, ITS DEFINITELY A CASE
OF KEEP YOUR FRIENDS CLOSE AND
YOUR ENEMIES OR AT LEAST THOSE
WHO CAN TESTIFY AGAINST YOU
CLOSER.
AND SO IT SEEMS THAT FORMER
PRESIDENT TRUMP IS KEEPING TABS
ON MR. WE SAYISSELBERG BECAUSE M
WEISSELBERG IS ONE MEMBER OF
THAT SMALL CIRCLE OF TRUST.
ITS NOT JUST THAT THE CIRCLE OF
TRUST IS SMALL THAT MAKES IT
DIFFICULT FOR THE PROSECUTORS,
ITS ALSO THAT FORMER PRESIDENT
TRUMP HAS OVER HIS COURSE OF
BUSINESS BEEN REALLY RETICENT TO
DOCUMENT HIS DOINGS IN EMAIL.
HE FAMOUSLY DOESNT EMAIL.
HE DOESNT WRITE THINGS DOWN.
SO ITS REALLY MR. WEISSELBERG
WHO HAS BEEN THE EYES AND EARS
OF THIS WHOLE OPERATION THAT CAN
PROVIDE THE INFORMATION TO LINK
ANY MISDOINGS TO TRUMP.
THATS REALLY WHATS NEEDED
HERE.
IF WEISSELBERG ISNT TALKING,
ITS GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT
TO GET THE GOODS TO PROVE INTENT
ON THE PART OF TRUMP.
>> YEAH.
MICHAEL, THIS "JOURNAL" STORY
AGAIN SHOWS ALL THE DIFFERENT
WAYS THAT THE PROBE IS GOING
FORWARD, BECAUSE WEVE HAD ALL
THESE DRIPS OF NEWS FROM THE
GRAND JURY BEING IMPANELLED TO
WHOS FACING IT.
MATTHEW CALAMARI, PROSECUTORS
HAVE AN INTEREST IN HIM, ONCE A
BODYGUARD, ALLEGING THAT THE
PRACTICE OF PROVIDING EMPLOYEES
WITH CARS AND APARTMENTS EXTENDS
BEYOND WEISSELBERG AND ALSO
EXTENDS TO WHETHER THIS WAS,
MICHAEL, IN THE EYES OF THE D.A.
A KIND OF A MODUS OPERANDI THAT
THEY WERE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO
CHEAT THE GOVERNMENT, TO LIE TO
REGULATORS, TO TIPNIP AND TUCK
EVERY WHICH WAY.
IF YOU TAKE IT ALTOGETHER, DOES
IT GET TO A FINANCIAL NUMBER
WHERE YOU HAVE NOT ONLY A CASE
BUT A JURY GOING OH, WELL, IF
ITS TENS OF MILLIONS OF
DOLLARS, WHY DO THEY GET TO
WRITE THAT OFF IF NOBODY ELSE
DOES?
>> YEAH, I AGREE WITH THAT
APPROACH ANALYSIS, ARI.
BUT HERES THE RUB.
LOOK, THE REALITY OF IT IS, AND
I THINK THIS IS WHAT A LOT OF
THIS INVESTIGATION IS EXPOSING,
THAT THIS IS A CORRUPT
ENTERPRISE.
IT JUST -- THE WAY TRUMP DID
THINGS, DELIBERATELY OR NOT SO
DELIBERATELY, THEYRE CORRUPT
ELEMENTS TO IT.
THE QUESTION STILL REMAINS WHAT
CAN BE PROVEN, AND THATS ONE.
TWO, HOW MUCH OF IT RISES TO AND
STICKS TO DONALD TRUMP.
IM STILL NOT CONVINCED WITH ALL
OF THE HAND WRINGING ABOUT
WEISSELBERG AND HIS
DAUGHTER-IN-LAW, YOU KNOW, SO
ON, PROSECUTORS ARE TALKING TO
HER AND SHES OUT HERE, OKAY,
LAYING OUT SOME TRACKS.
I STILL DONT KNOW HOW MUCH OF
THIS IS REALLY GOING TO DOUBLE
BACK ON HIM.
BODYGUARDS, WEISSELBERG.
TRUMP ENDEARS A LEVEL OF LOYALTY
THAT ABSENT SOMEONE LIKE HIS
LAWYER, IT JUST -- IT JUST SEEMS
TO BE ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT
EVERYONE JUST KIND OF STICKS
CLOSE TO THIS GUY.
MICHAEL COHEN IS THE ONLY ONE
WHOS REALLY KIND OF GONE OUT
HERE AND LAID DOWN A LITTLE BIT
OF THE INSIDE ON THE INSIDE,
BUT, YOU KNOW, OTHERS HAVE NOT.
I MEAN EVEN THOSE WHO ARE
TANGENTIALLY ATTACHED TO TRUMP
HAVENT TURNED STATES EVIDENCE
TO THE DEGREE, WHETHER YOURE
TALKING ABOUT THE MUELLER PROBE
OR I THINK NOW WITH WHATS GOING
ON WITH WEISSELBERG, I JUST WANT
TO SIT BACK AND ASSESS THIS.
IM SKEPTICAL THAT THERES A LOT
THERE THAT WEISSELBERG AND
OTHERS ARE JUST GOING TO TURN
OVER.
LOOK, CULTT THE DEAL.
TAKE CARE OF MY FAMILY, I GOT
YOUR BACK.
ITS THAT SCENE FROM "THE
GODFATHER" WHEN THEY VISIT
WHATS HIS NAME IN THE JAIL.
HE ASKS HOWS MY BROTHER DOING?
WELL TAKE CARE OF YOUR BROTHER,
DONT WORRY ABOUT YOUR BROTHER.
ITS THAT KIND OF DEAL.
SO THE FAMILY WILL BE TAKEN CARE
OF.
OKAY, MAYBE I DONT TURN STATES
EVIDENCE AND I TAKE ONE FOR
TRUMP.
I JUST DONT -- THATS HOW
PEOPLE THINK IN THIS WORLD AND I
DONT KNOW HOW WE CAN RELY ON
SOMETHING OTHER THAN THAT.
>> YEAH.
NO, I THINK THATS THE
SKEPTICISM THATS RELEVANT AND
THAT BRINGS US TO THE WAY THAT
EVEN WHEN CAUGHT HES GOTTEN OUT
OF THINGS.
OUR PANEL STAYS BUT I WANT TO
ALSO MENTION SOME SPECIAL
REPORTING HERE ON WEISSELBERGS
PAST DEPOSITIONS.
THERE WAS THE CRIMINAL PROBE OF
TRUMP U.
WEISSELBERG DESCRIBED HIS
RELATIONSHIP WITH TRUMP AS CLOSE
AND ONE-SIDED.
I WOULDNT GO IN AND JUST
CHITCHAT BUT IF I HAD A REASON
TO DISCUSS A BUSINESS MATTER,
WED HAVE A CONVERSATION.
THIS IS CONTEXT FOR A VERY
SPECIAL GUEST WE HAVE, TRISTAN
SNELL, A PROSECUTOR WHO HELPED
LEAD THE INVESTIGATION OF TRUMP
U.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
TRUMP U WAS FAMOUSLY A BUSINESS
THAT GAVE OUT BUSINESS ADVICE
AND ULTIMATELY WENT OUT OF
BUSINESS SO IT WASNT A GREAT
SMASH SUCCESS.
BUT TO MICHAEL STEELES POINT,
THERE IS THE VIEW THAT EVEN WHEN
CAUGHT, EVEN TO THE TUNE OF
MILLIONS, THE BIG GUY TENDS TO
SWIM OFF.
WHAT ARE YOUR INSIGHTS ON ALL OF
THIS FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE THERE?
>> WELL, WE ACTUALLY HAD A COURT
DECISION IN THAT CASE THAT HE
DIDNT SWIM OFF.
WE ACTUALLY GOT A COURT DECISION
AT THE INTERMEDIATE LEVEL OF
THAT CASE BEFORE IT SETTLED
WHERE IT WAS DECIDED THAT TRUMP
AND THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION WERE
LIABLE FOR TRUMP UNIVERSITYS
MISDEEDS.
SO HE DOESNT ALWAYS SWIM OFF.
ITS JUST THAT NO ONE HAS REALLY
COME AT HIM THIS HARD THAT
OFTEN.
AS FOR COHEN BEING THE ONLY ONE
TO TURN, WELL, HES THE ONLY ONE
OR ONE OF THE ONLY ONES WHOS
ACTUALLY BEEN INDICTED IN
TRUMPS INNER CIRCLE.
WHEN THINGS ARE ACTUALLY HITTING
YOU AND YOURE ACTUALLY REALLY
SEEING THE PROSPECT OF BEING
CONVICTED OF A CRIME, PEOPLES
TUNE CAN CHANGE.
SO I THINK WERE WAY TOO EARLY
TO SAY THAT HES GOING TO TURN
OR NOT TURN.
I THINK ONCE HES INDICTED, WE
COULD SEE A VERY DIFFERENT
SITUATION ARISE.
>> IF HES INDICTED --
>> IF HES INDICTED.
IF WEISSELBERG IS INDICTED, WE
COULD SEE A VERY DIFFERENT
STORY.
>> YEAH.
WELL, IM GOING TO LET MICHAEL
RESPOND TO YOU, BECAUSE THE
ORATOR THAT HE IS IM SURE HE
HAS REBUTTAL COOKING.
BUT WEISSELBERG IS SOMEONE THAT
YOU DEALT WITH IN THIS MANNER.
IM READING HERE AND HE OVERSAW
THE SPENDING DECISIONS AT TRUMP
U., THE ONLINE PROGRAM AND THE
DEPOSITION IN THE CASE SPEAKS TO
THAT.
THERE ARE EXPERTS HERE WHO SAY
MONEY MAN ONLY SCRATCHES THE
SURFACE.
HE WAS AT TIMES BASICALLY THE
ACTING CEO.
WHAT, IF ANYTHING, CAN YOU TELL
US ABOUT THAT BASED ON YOUR
KNOWLEDGE AND IS THAT GOOD OR
BAD FOR HIM AS HE FACES THIS
HEAT?
>> WELL, FIRST OFF, YOU CAN FIND
OUT A LOT ABOUT AN ORGANIZATION,
ABOUT A COMPANY, ABOUT A TARGET
WITHOUT ACTUALLY HAVING THEM
COOPERATE WITH YOU.
SO WE WERE ABLE TO GET A LOT OF
INFORMATION ON HOW THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION WORKED AND
WEISSELBERGS ROLE IN IT DESPITE
THE FACT THAT WE DID NOT HAVE
WEISSELBERGS COOPERATION.
WE NEVER EVEN FELT LIKE WE
NEEDED TO BRING HIM IN AS A
WITNESS BECAUSE WE HAD ALREADY
HAD ENOUGH KNOWLEDGE OF
EVERYTHING THAT WE DIDNT REALLY
NEED WEISSELBERG BUT WE WERE
STILL ABLE TO FIND THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION LIABLE AND A LOT OF
WHY THE JUDGE IN THE TRUMP
UNIVERSITY CASE DECIDED THAT
TRUMP ORGANIZATION WAS LIABLE
WAS BECAUSE OF WEISSELBERGS
VERY HEAVY-HANDED DAY-TO-DAY
CONTROL OF THE ORGANIZATION.
VERY MUCH HE WAS THE ACTING CEO.
I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT HE WAS
BASICALLY THE COO, THE CHIEF
OPERATING OFFICER OF THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION, A ROLE WHICH HAS
NEVER REALLY BEEN FILLED, AT
LEAST NOT THAT I KNOW OF IN THE PAST 20 YEARS.
PAST 20 YEARS.
SO THE CFO, YOU MAKING HIGH-LEV
DECISIONS BASED ON THAT.
WEISSELBERG WAS DOING MORE THAN
THAT.
HE WOULD DECIDE WHICH BUSINESSES
WOULD LIVE AND WHICH BUSINESSES
WOULD DIE.
AT ONE POINT TRUMP UNIVERSITY
WAS NOT MAKING VERY MUCH MONEY
AT FIRST AND IT WAS WEISSELBERG
WHO ACTUALLY HAD THE TRUMP
UNIVERSITY PEOPLE COME IN AND
SAY, HEY, THIS BUSINESS BETTER
START MAKING MORE MONEY OR IM
SHUTTING IT DOWN.
HE GAVE THEM AN ULTIMATUM.
THAT CAME FROM WEISSELBERG, NOT
FROM TRUMP.
WE THINK OF TRUMP BEING THE GUY
THAT RUNS AROUND TELLING PEOPLE
YOURE FIRED.
A LOT OF TIMES IT WAS
WEISSELBERG WHO WAS THE
ENFORCER.
HE WAS NOT JUST THE BEAN
COUNTER, HE HAD A LOT OF POWER
WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION TO
DETERMINE WHAT BUSINESSES WERE
GOING TO DO WHAT, WHICH ONES
WOULD GO FORWARD AND WHICH ONES
WOULD BE SHUT DOWN.
>> MICHAEL?
>> FIRST OFF, IM NOT GOING TO
CLAP BACK ON THE ASSISTANT
ATTORNEY GENERAL, THATS NUMBER
ONE.
SO HES GOT THE CRED, IM GOING
TO FLY ON THAT STREET CRED ON
THE POINT.
BUT TWO, HE ACTUALLY JUST MADE
THE POINT I WAS PROBABLY NOT
THAT WELL ARTICULATING AND THAT
IS AT THE END OF THE DAY, TRUMP