The NRA referred to their most avid
supporters and activists as
hillbillies and fruitcake during
a strategic meeting following
the shooting in columbine.
Now we'll get to that audio in just
a moment.
But we're learning about these new
details after NPR obtained 2.5
hours of audio from this meeting
that took place immediately after
the columbine shooting in 1999.
The tapes were recorded secretly by
someone who took part in
the meetings and that individual,
who wishes to remain anonymous for
obvious reasons,
shared the tapes with NPR.
Now we're going to go through some
of the notable moments here,
beginning with the main topic of
conversation during this strategic
meeting.
Which was in regard to an upcoming
conference for the NRA.
That conference was to
take place about a few days after
the columbine shooting happened.
And so I mean obviously there were
some NRA
officials who were concerned,
including the NRA lobbyist.
Jim baker,
who was particularly worried about
how the optics would be if they
went through with that conference.
So let's hear what he had to say.
At the same period where they're
going to be burying these children,
we're going to be having media
within 10 miles of
our convention center.
The world's media trying to run
through the exhibit hall looking at
kids fondling firearms,
which is going to be a horrible,
horrible, horrible juxtaposition.
>> Now again that's Jim baker,
he is the NRA lobbyist and
the point he's making is certainly
a valid one.
But there were members of this
meeting who certainly disagreed
with him including Tony Marcus who
is an NRA, PR.
Consultant he said this that's one
very good argument Jim on the other
side if you don't appear to be
deferential in honoring
the dead you end
up being a tremendous s head.
Who wouldn't tuck tail and run, so
it's a double-edged sword.
So the argument here is I
don't know,
maybe we should go forward with it
because canceling the conference.
Could make it appear as
though we feel guilty or
claim some responsibility for
what happened in columbine, John.
>> Yeah,
the reason that you would feel that
way is because it is that way.
And so it's not like they're like
there was a shooting at a school
lots of kids died,
so we're going to blame Star Trek.
No they're going to blame
the thing, that makes sense.
Which is that the guns kill them,
and you encourage kids to
have guns.
In fact you saw right there,
you heard with your own ears him
saying if the press comes to our
convention they're going to see
kids funneling guns.
He literally said that why?
Because they know because they
look, that's their internal meaning
they think nobody's listening.
They know they're encouraging kids
to get guns, that's why they're so
worried.
My God, if they find out that we're
the ones encouraging this it's
going to be a problem.
But to be fair to the NRA, I gotta
say in an emergency situation like
that they did amazing pr and
spin control here.
And as you're going to see here in
this story, they got themselves out
of it brilliantly from a political
perspective.
And it wound up being a thing that
they use over and
over again to evade responsibility.
>> Now, someone who comes up quite
a bit in the reporting here is
an NRA.
Strategist by the name of Marion
hammer, and
she is to put it lightly and
generously insane.
She's also against canceling
the conference, and
she makes it clear by stating.
You have to go forward for the NRA
to scrap this and the amount of
money that we have spent.
And at that point she gets
interrupted by wayne LaPierre, and
he tries to make a point about how
they have meeting insurance,
meaning if they end up canceling
the conference it's okay.
The insurance that they have
will basically reimburse them for
the costs of the event that they're
now canceling.
And what was fascinating is how she
responded to Wayne LaPierre.
So in this next clip it's going to
start with Wayne LaPierre, and
then you're going to hear
Marion Hammer continue her argument
in favor of keeping the conference,
not canceling it, let's listen.
>> We have meeting insurance,
I just screw the insurance.
The message that it will send
is that even the NRA was brought to
its knees.
And the media will have a field day
with brought to its knees.
>> The media will have a field
day with it.
Look, I think that the strategy
here is very similar to what we saw
from Donald Trump.
Refused to ever take any
responsibility, deny,
deny, deny, never apologize and
just steamroll ahead.
And that's the strategy that we've
seen from the NRA since.
And unfortunately it has worked,
it has been successful.
And remember the whole point of
that conference is to sell more
guns because the NRA,
an organization that is heavily
funded by gun manufacturers.
There is a profit motive
behind what's taking place here,
despite the amount of people who
get shot in mass shootings.
And also keep in
mind that the Columbine shooting,
which ended up killing 13 people,
injuring 20 others, was the first
mass shooting since the 1960s.
So the country had not yet
been as desensitized
by mass shootings as it is today.
>> Yeah, this is why I say
they were brilliant.
And there's actually a very
surprising twist about the gun
manufacturers in this story to
and so, but
we'll get to that in a second.
But the brilliant part was they
decided, no, let's go over the top
and let's Charlton Heston came up
with this and set it in his speech.
Let's blame the other side and
say that they're playing politics
with kids who have just died.
Well that totally work, so number
one, I've seen political polling
that shows apologizing moves about
three points.
So it means that it does no good
for you.
But what it does with the rest of
the folks when you apologize is
that it reinforces that you did
something wrong.
So I don't know that they had
access to that point.
They certainly never
talked about it in that call.
I know they didn't have access to
polling that I saw, right?
But their instinct of not
apologizing, unfortunately in
politics, is correct, okay.
Now, secondly,
when they turn it around and
said you're politicizing it?
Well, my God,
that worked like a charm because
guys remember they're not trying
to prove themselves innocent.
All they're trying to do is
manufacture doubt, and
they know what the mainstream media
all I have to say anything, and
they'll turn it into 50, 50.
So the minute the NRA said,
you're politicizing it,
the media went, I can't tell,
I can't tell who's right or wrong.
I can't tell if it's the guns that
killed two people or
the people politicizing the guns
that killed the people.
Was the Blueberries and
Star Trek or was it the guns,
I can't tell.
And so they used that strategy now
after every mass shooting, and
it's worked every time.
>> Well, there was another moment
during this strategic meeting with
NRA officials where they discussed
the possibility of
providing the victims.
Some sort of fund, right in order
to obviously they're doing it for
positive PR as NPR notes in
those private moments.
The NRA considered a strikingly
more sympathetic posture toward
mass shootings than the
uncompromising stance it had taken
publicly in the decades since.
Even considering a $1 million fund
to care for the victims.
Now, one of the people who was in
favor of this is NRA
official Kayne Robinson.
He wanted to create this
victims fund.
And the PR consultant, Tony Marcus,
makes another appearance speaking
out against it, let's listen.
>> Is there something concrete
that we can offer?
Not because guns are responsible,
but because we care about
the people or anything.
Does that look craft or a victim's
fund, or we create a victim's fund,
and we give a victim of $1 million
dollars or things like that.
That looks bad or
doesn't look well, I mean,
that can be twisted to,
I mean, why are you giving money?
You feel responsible?
No, well, your true,
it can be twisted, but
we feel sympathetic and respectful.
>> So in the very end of that clip,
you hear Jim baker again,
that's the NRA lobbyist.
And he seems to be much more in
favor of both
canceling the conference, but
also providing the victims that $1
million victims fund.
But the person who seems to be two
people seem to be the most
outspoken against doing anything
that seems to either apologize or
take any responsibility.
It's the pr consultant Tony Marcus,
and also the NRA strategist, Marion
hammer, who will make another
appearance later in this segment.
But in regard to Robinson,
Kayne Robinson, who wanted
the victim's fund, you can also
hear him in the audio saying this.
Don't anybody kid yourselves about
this great macho thing of going
down there and showing our chest
and showing how damn tough we are,
we are in deep crap on this deal.
And so anything we do here is going
to be a matter of trying to decide
the best of a whole bunch of very,
very bad choices.
And again, we know which direction
they went in.
Obviously, do not apologize,
do not take responsibility.
Steamroll ahead and so
any thoughts on that Jake before we
move on to Marian Hamer's comments
on NRA activists?
>> Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to
them insulting their own activist.
So, you know what they actually
think of you.
But I also, again, want to say
their views on Congress and gun
manufacturers are super relevant,
so keep going.
All right, so,
we're going to get to their views
on Congress in just a moment.
But here's Marian Hammer,
the NRA strategist essentially
telling the world or in this
private meeting, telling them which
he genuinely thinks about the most
avid NRA supporters and activists.
>> If you pull down the exhibit
hall, that's not going to leave
anything for the media except
the members meeting.
And you're going to have the wackos
with all kinds of crazy resolutions
with all kinds of dressing like
a bunch of hillbillies and idiots.
And it's going to it's going to be
the worst thing you can imagine.
>> I didn't say it, she said it.
>> Yeah, so look,
that's what they think of you.
If you're NRA, remember the elites
and the NRA think you're wackos and
hillbillies and idiots.
Sometimes right-wing catches
massive feelings when we call
them idiots.
But it turns out your own leaders
think you're idiots, and
that's 10,000 times worse because
we're fighting against you guys,
where is they're tricking you.
They think, these guys lead to good
profits, get a bunch of wacko
hillbillies in here, and
we'll sell them a lot of weapons,
they'll die, but who cares, right?
And so now, what they think
privately, is it going to change
your mind now, you're going to
listen to a right-wing media show.
You're going to get brainwashed
into thinking guns are awesome and
that they protect you.
And then unfortunately for some of
you that will be your demise.
>> And then finally let's talk
about Congress because the system
of legalized bribery has been
a problem for quite some time,
lobbying has been a problem for
quite some time.
And the NRA has exploited that
system for its own benefit.
So here's what their discussion
regarding Congress sounded like
they discuss conservative
politicians.
And gun industry representatives as
largely inconsequential players,
saying they will do whatever
the NRA proposes.
Members of Congress one participant
says have asked the NRA to quote,
secretly provide them with talking
points, end quote.
And so look, obviously none of that
is surprising to us.
We see how the sausage is made day
in day out, but it is very nice to
see them admitted on tape for what,
like the billions time.
I mean, this is a different context
with different players, but
how many videos, how much tape have
we shown this year alone.
Involving lobbyists for
massive corporations,
indicating that they're just buying
politicians left and right.
It's just the most obvious
thing in the world.
>> Yeah, so first of all,
on Congress this is classic
Washington.
So even back then, 1999 the NRA
basically lobbyists saying, don't
worry about the Congress members.
They're puppets, okay, and so
the idiots are panicking,
they come to us, and
then we give them talking points,
and then they're happy.
They talk about Tancredo,
they talk about senators,
they name specific people
who called who are in a panic.
And they say, don't worry,
we're going to give you schmucks,
you're talking points of your
stupid checks.
They didn't mention the checks and
the calls, but that's obvious and
implied, okay?
And then you'll do as you're told,
by the way again, I blame
the mainstream media in this case
because they treat the politicians
with such reverence.
Like what does the senator from
Oklahoma think, he doesn't think
a damn thing, he's waiting for the
NRA lobbyist to tell him what to
say because he's a stupid puppet.
Okay, don't have any respect for
these elites in Washington.
So now look, but in a sense,
you also see here the NRA leaders
are kind of directing traffic,
right?
And they think everybody's idiots
on their own side, right?
We got to use the useful idiots who
are the guys who buy the guns, and
we have to have our puppet
idiots who we control in Congress.
But now the NR is a lot more
radical than even those tapes
indicate, so what happened?
I think there was some degree of
audience capture,
just like there is today
in social media with online hosts.
I think that those guys that they
called wackos and hillbillies were
such an important customer base.
They kept appealing to them, and
they became more and
more radical over the years, until
they became the wacko hillbillies.
And so now I mean they
say outrageous
things after mass shootings,
and they blame they're not
just manufacturing doubt anymore.
They're aggressively turning around
and blaming the people who
are actually trying to solve it and
saying that it's their problem.
And then finally,
the gun manufacturer part was
also interesting because in parts
of the tapes, it seems like the gun
manufacturers are not that
important to the guys at the NRA.
Like the members of Congress,
they treat them like we'll tell him
what to say.
And I was surprised by
that because I would think the gun
manufacturers are the ones that
are paying them and
hence they would have more power.
But later in the tapes, you see
that it's the gun manufacturers
basically asking them like
what should be our talking points.
So then you realize, the NRA is
just the marketing arm for
those gun manufacturers.
So the gun manufacturers are almost
calling their employees and saying,
hey, how do we market our way out
of this?
So we can sell more guns to
the wackos and hillbillies?
And the NRA is here to please those
masters