POLITICAL ANALYST AND THE AUTHOR
OF "HIS VERY BEST: JIMMY CARTER
A LIFE" AND NORM IS BACK WITH
US.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE PRESIDENT
OF THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN
LISTENING TO YOU AND YOUR
SUGGESTIONS ABOUT HOW TO CHANGE
THE SENATE RULES.
>> I WAS VERY HAPPY WITH THOSE
COMMENTS.
I CRINGED AT WHAT HE SAID AS YOU
POINTED OUT EARLIER ABOUT
ABOLISHING THE FILIBUSTER
BRINGING AS E.J. SAID, CHAOS.
BUT THIS WAS HEARTENING IN A LOT
OF WAYS.
BIDEN IS OPEN TO REFORMING THE
FILIBUSTER.
ONE WAY OF DOING THAT IS GO BACK
TO A PRESENT VOTING STANDARD.
WHAT HE IS REALLY TALKING ABOUT
IS PUTTING THE BURDEN ON THE
FILIBUSTERERERS, ON THE
MINORITY.
I THINK WE ARE IN PRETTY CLOSE
RANGE OF GETTING 50 VOTES WHEN
THE TIME COMES TO REFORMING IT
TO GO BACK TO WHAT IT WAS IN A
SENSE WHICH IS TO PUT THAT
BURDEN BACK ON THE MINORITY.
THERE ARE A LOT OF WAYS OF DOING
IT.
I WOULD BE THRILLED IF HE PICKED
THE ONE THAT I FAVORED THE MOST
AND CRAFTED EARLY ON WITHOUT
FRANKEN BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF
WAYS TO GO HERE AND HE LEFT THAT
DOOR OPEN.
LETS BE CLEAR THOUGH, LAWRENCE.
THERE ARE NOT NOW 50 VOTES TO
ELIMINATE THE FILIBUSTER.
THERE WILL NOT BE.
SO THE LATTER PART OF HIS
COMMENTS DONT MEAN A WHOLE LOT
IN TERMS OF WHAT WE NEED.
THERE ARE I THINK LIKELY TO BE
50 VOTES WITH A PUSH FROM THE
PRESIDENT WHEN THE TIME COMES TO
MAKE AN IMPORTANT CHANGE.
>> AND, JONATHAN, JUST TO GO TO
THAT OTHER POINT, WHAT THE
PRESIDENT SAID THAT DID BOTHER A
LOT OF PEOPLE, HE DID GO ON TO
SAY, IF YOU GOT RID OF THE WHOLE
THING, NOW, HE SAID, QUOTE,
YOURE GOING TO THROW THE ENTIRE
CONGRESS INTO CHAOS, AND THESE
ARE THE KEY WORDS, AND NOTHING
WILL GET DONE.
NOW, WHAT IF THIS IS AFTER BOTH
INFRASTRUCTURE BILLS HAVE PASSED
AND VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE FIRST
TERM BIDEN AGENDA HAS PASSED?
THE STAKES ABOUT WHAT WILL THEN
GET DONE AFTER SOME CHANGE OF
SENATE RULES BECOME VERY, VERY
DIFFERENT.
>> YEAH.
THEY DO.
BUT FIRST YOU HAVE TO GET
THROUGH THIS PERIOD OF GETTING
THESE BIG INFRASTRUCTURE BILLS
THROUGH SO I THINK PROGRESSIVES,
ALL DEMOCRATS HAVE TO NOT PUT
THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE HERE.
SO THERE IS MORE FLEXIBILITY TO
DO THINGS ON THE FILIBUSTER A
LITTLE BIT DOWN THE ROAD.
I THINK WHAT HES TALKING ABOUT
IS THAT IF YOU DID SOMETHING
PRECIPITOUS NOW YOU WOULD UPSET
AN AWFUL LOT OF SENATORS AND NOT
JUST, YOU KNOW, MANCHIN AND
SINEMA ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DEMOCRATIC
SENATORS WORRIED ABOUT WHAT
WOULD HAPPEN IF MITCH McCONNELL
WAS NOT RESTRAINED AT ALL AND BECAME SENATE MAJORITY LEADER
BECAME SENATE MAJORITY LEADER
UNDER A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT IN
2025.
SO I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO
UNDERSTAND IT IS NOT NECESSARILY
THESE VERSUS OURS ON THIS ISSUE.
IT IS MORE COMPLICATED INSIDE
THE SENATE.
THE OTHER BIG THING PEOPLE NEED
TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT HR-1 IS THAT
SETTING THE FILIBUSTER ASIDE,
THERE ARE NOT 50 VOTES FOR HR-1
RIGHT NOW.
AND SO THIS IDEA THAT OH, IF WE
ONLY GOT RID OF THE FILIBUSTER,
WED HAVE VOTING RIGHTS REFORM,
IS NOT ACCURATE AT LEAST AS
THINGS STAND TODAY.
>> NORM, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF
YOURE GOING TO CONVINCE, IF JOE
BIDEN IS EVENTUALLY GOING TO
CONVINCE JOE MANCHIN TO GO ALONG
WITH HIM ON A SENATE RULES
CHANGE, HES NOT GOING TO BE
ABLE -- THAT WONT HAPPEN
PUBLICLY.
THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THEYD
HAVE TO HAVE VERY CLOSE, QUIET
CONVERSATIONS ABOUT.
BECAUSE JOE MANCHIN DOESNT WANT
IT TO LOOK LIKE IN WEST VIRGINIA
THAT THE PRESIDENT BULLIED HIM
INTO DOING THIS.
>> YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT
JOE MANCHIN HAS SAID AND PARCE
IT OUT, HE IS VERY MUCH OPEN TO
SOME OF THESE CHANGES.
AND BIDEN CAN HAVE AN IMPACT ON
HIM.
I THINK JOHNS POINT IS A VERY
IMPORTANT ONE, THOUGH.
WERE NOT GOING TO SEE HR-1 AS
IT IS WRITTEN, THE FOR THE
PEOPLE ACT.
WELL NEED THE PRESIDENT TO STEP
IN NOT JUST QUIETLY, QUIETLY,
PERSUASIVELY TO GET A CHANGE IN
THE RULE.
WERE GOING TO NEED THE
PRESIDENT TO PUT ALL OF HIS
EFFORTS, AND THE VICE PRESIDENT,
INTO CRAFTING A KIND OF VOTING
BILL THAT WILL GET 50 VOTES.
MANCHINS PUT OUT A KIND OF
WHITE PAPER JUST TALKING POINTS
BUT ITS GOT SOME GOOD CHANGES
IN IT THAT COULD WORK AND I
THINK THEY ALSO HAVE TO INCLUDE
NOT JUST THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT
BUT THE BILL THAT RAPHAEL
WARNOCK THE SENATOR FROM GEORGIA
HAS PUT IN THAT WOULD OBVIATE
SOME OF THESE TERRIBLE EFFORTS
TO ENABLE REPUBLICAN
LEGISLATURES TO OVERTURN
ELECTION RESULTS BECAUSE THEY
DONT LIKE THEM.
PUT THAT PACKAGE TOGETHER AND I
THINK BIDEN CAN PLAY A VERY
CONSTRUCTIVE ROLE.
AND THEN I THINK WERE REALLY ON
LINE TO GET SOMETHING
EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT DONE.
>> JONATHAN, THATS WHATS --
THAT IVE BEEN FOLLOWING IN THIS
VOTING RIGHTS ISSUE IN THE
SENATE IS THAT IT IS A COMPLEX,
LONGER TERM GAME THAN OBVIOUSLY
IT IS IN THE HOUSE.
AND ITS ALWAYS DIFFICULT FOR
PEOPLE TO WATCH THAT AND WAIT
FOR THE SEQUENTIAL ELEMENTS OF
THE GAME TO PLAY OUT.
>> AND PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND
THAT HR-1 FOR THE REASONS NORM
JUST DESCRIBED IS OBSOLETE RIGHT
NOW.
IT WAS WRITTEN YEARS AGO BEFORE
THE 2020 ELECTION.
THERE ARE TWO BIG PROBLEMS.
VOTER SUPPRESSION, SO EVERYBODY
KNOWS IT, ITS BEEN AROUND FOR A
LONG TIME, AND VOTER SUB
VERSION, WHICH IS A NEW PROBLEM
OF PEOPLE TRYING TO ACT LIKE
THEYRE LIVING IN A BANANA
REPUBLIC, BANANA REPUBLICANS
BASICALLY TRYING TO OVERTURN
ELECTION RETURNS WITH ENDLESS
AUDITS.
THIS ONE IN ARIZONA HAS BEEN
GOING ON SINCE FEBRUARY.
AND THESE FRAUD-ITS MUST BE
STOPPED.
THESE ARE EXTRAORDINARILY
DANGEROUS FOR DEMOCRACY IF ITS
HEADS WE WIN TAILS YOU LOSE.
WHICH IS A REPUBLICAN POSITION
RIGHT NOW.
THEY WILL PROTEST THE RESULTS OF
ANY ELECTION THAT THEY DONT
WIN.
AND THAT MUST BE DEALT WITH
LEGISLATIVELY.
SO HR-1 MUST BE AMENDED TO
INCLUDE WARNOCKS PROVISIONS AND
PERHAPS OTHER ONES.
ALSO, DEMOCRATS NEED TO GO ON
OFFENSE ON THIS AND NOT JUST BE
PLAYING DEFENSE.
SO MY FEELING IS THAT WHEN THE
HUMAN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL COMES
TO THE FLOOR, THE ONE THEYRE
GOING TO PUSH THROUGH WITH 50
VOTES, AND RECONCILIATION,
BECAUSE ELECTION EQUIPMENT HAS
BEEN DECLARED CRITICAL
INFRASTRUCTURE BY THE DEPARTMENT
OF HOMELAND SECURITY, THEY
SHOULD HAVE A PROVISION THAT
SAYS THAT ANY STATE THAT WANTS
ANY OF THAT MONEY FOR THAT
CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE TO
UPGRADE THEIR ELECTION SYSTEMS
MUST PROVIDE NO EXCUSES ABSENTEE
BALLOTS AT A MINIMUM SO THAT