-It's a holiday coming up. Do you have plans?
-Mainly, Christmas cookies. -Christmas cookies.
-My wife and I are throwing a party tomorrow night.
We spend all day today and most of tomorrow Christmas cookies.
-Are they the kind of Christmas cookies when if as a guest
to your party, people will see them and be impressed?
-We're counting on that. -Okay. Gotcha.
-And I -- at the moment, I'm all cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice.
-Gotcha. That's sort of --
That's the era of your life you're living through.
Those are your spices. -That's right.
-This is not -- this is --
Roger Ailes is not a Christmassy kind of guy.
-It's not a holiday film.
-Yes. [ Laughter ]
-It's opening during the holidays.
-But do not mistake it for a holiday film.
-But in Hollywood, you know, Christmas is award season.
So I guess it is. -There you go.
What is a better gift than an award?
You're Roger Ailes.
You play Roger Ailes in this film,
and it takes place in 2015.
Some of the things that were happening then were
sort of Megyn Kelly questioning Donald Trump in a debate.
Gretchen Carlson filing a sexual harassment suit
against the network.
And this is all sort of a precursor to the Me Too movement
which is obviously very close to it but right before it.
Was it interesting to sort of delve into --
you know, this is a historical piece,
but it's sort of recent history.
-Very much so.
It was an amazing feeling to be doing a film like this
that is so much at
the center of everybody's consciousness these days.
This really was a kind of origin story.
When the Harvey Weinstein scandal came along,
that's when the dam broke.
Well, this was the hole in the dam.
-Yeah.
-And an incredible --
It was a period of only about three weeks
when so much happened
and Roger Ailes' life was just washed away.
Karma caught up with him.
-You say that karma caught up with him,
and I think a lot of people would agree with you.
No matter what you think, obviously this is a guy
who built an empire, as referenced in that clip.
Many people would have negative opinions of Roger Ailes.
When you play someone like that, do you have to find a way to be
empathetic towards them or can you play someone hateful
and as an actor be hateful as well?
-Well, I've thought about that a lot over the years
because I've played a lot of villains.
I always say I'm on the side of whatever character I'm playing.
It's just a matter of plumbing the depths, trying to empathize,
look inside, and what makes that person tick.
It's not necessarily exonerating Roger Ailes
or building sympathy for him,
but it is trying to kind of explain -- explain him.
-Yeah.
-Give a little emotional authenticity to him.
I mean, it seems to me that everyone --
A villain like this lives a life of shame.
You know, he carries this terrific guilty secret
and if you -- if you're that ashamed,
surely there's levels of remorse and regret.
That's kind of what I look for.
I mean, it's just a kind of conflict inside the character.
-And for someone who, you know, built a television empire,
there's not a ton of --
Was there a ton of tape for you to go on?
Was there a lot for the purposes of research?
-It was very hard.
I found what I could, but Roger himself,
I don't think he liked to be photographed.
Otherwise, I could have found a lot more.
I finally found his voice
in a kind of media symposium interview
he did and was surprised.
It was the first time I'd heard his voice.
It was a very kind of buoyant and cheerful Midwestern accent.
Very different from a villain's voice.
-Yeah. -You know.
-Very good for you. -Yeah.
-Yeah. You have a good buoyant voice.
-As a matter of fact, he grew up in Warren, Ohio.
I spent two years of my childhood in Akron,
which is right nearby.
So turns out we had that in common.
-That's amazing.
You -- There's a lot of -- You had a --
Was it your neighbor that knew him
or you had a friend who used to be his neighbor?
-No, not neighbor. Oh, I know.
Yes. Our mutual friends, Bonnie and Terry Turner.
-Oh, yeah, of course. -They're in Cold Spring.
Their property abutted Roger's.
And Bonnie told me that one day in a diner,
she saw Roger Ailes eat an entire meat pizza.
-Wow. [ Laughter ]
-I never even heard the phrase "meat pizza."
-Yeah, certainly.
It seems like a special order maybe. Yeah.