It's easy to see it in other people, sometimes they don't see it in
themselves. How do you help a hoarder who's in denial?
So we all know people
who are in denial about something or other, right?
- Most of us, right? - My friend, Marla Dee, with me again here today at Live On Purpose TV and
Marla, you gave me an acronym for denial. - Don't Even Know I Am Lying.
Isn't that perfect?
- Don't even know I am lying, denial. Beautiful. Hey, that could apply to all kinds of
things. Today we're talking about hoarding again. We did another episode
yeah about how to help a hoarder clean their house and if you haven't seen
that one, go link to it right up there and you'll see what we talked about
there. Today, a little different because there's all kinds of things in life that
we get into denial about where we don't even know I am lying. Wow, I've just got
to sit with that for a minute. - Yeah, cause everyone has that, right?
- Maybe we're all in denial about something. This hoarding thing, now we
talked in the other video about how hoarding is a very complex multifaceted
kind of a thing but we all know someone who is at least an amateur hoarder.
I probably am. -We do actually. - And there's some common things that we all
do as human beings that may tend toward that but we all know people who are
maybe in a more serious position with this too. - Right, where it's affecting their
life in a big way and the people around them. - And it seems like
we all know this but they are kind of the
last one to figure it out, right? So Marla, you've got some education for us today
about this. - You know what I found through my years as an organizer ,as you know
I've done it 18 years so that means I have seen
a lot of pain and I've seen a lot of clutter and disorganization
and a lot of denial and it's so common when I go in that you know, one person in
the partnership wants the organization and the other person doesn't so I'm
really familiar with this. How do I bring that person out of denial into
reality? So I have found that education is just to keep peace, education for the
person who's wanting to help and also education for the person who's in denial
so we mentioned this on the other video but I'm going to bring up again my
favorite favorite resource is the Institute for Challenging
Disorganization, ICD, and they have a number of tools on their websites that
will really open the eyes, right. Bring in the light, the awareness of what is going
on because all change starts with awareness so we need that understanding
of what is hoarding and what isn't hoarding and one of the great things
that they have on their website that you can just download for free is their
clutter hoarding scale, this is a reference guide we actually get different colors
for each of the five levels. Did you know there were five levels? - I didn't know
that there were five. I know that there's different intensities obviously
if there's a problem. - Truly and we tend to glop them all together so it's going
to help that person come out of denial actually a lot of times, I've seen this
personally, if they can look at this and go oh wow, you know I'm really just a
level one so there are some things that need to be done but I'm not this big bad
terrible person. - Well we've seen their reality shows
right? - And they're scary. - And you see these depictions on television for
example about hoarders who are completely trapped in this world and
maybe that's on the severe end so you're saying there's five different
levels and you can start by figuring out, okay, how serious is this?
- And if somebody's only at level one or level two and they reach
out and get help, if you help them come out of denial by just giving them
the awareness that look, this is where you're at, it's not
that bad then you could literally change the course of their life and it would
never have to go down to level five so that is possible. The family member, the
close loved one is usually not the best person to bring them out of denial
however. - Oh wow, yeah, that is true. - One of the best things is that neutral third party
so whether that is a psychologist, whether it's a professional organizer,
you know, an outside professional or you know, it could be an unpaid person but
that's neutral in the situation, that they feel safe to talk to because you
know, that order is not going to feel safe talking to the person that is dealing
with the pain of their problems so it's really important to get that right
person and that's another thing you're gonna find on the ICD website is where
you can find professionals to help you and that's a great place to begin.
- So we'll include a link in the description down below where you can get to the
- challengingdisorganization.com - challengingdisorganization.com
Great resources that I think you know what, that's probably the most
important place to start with pretty much anything that we're concerned about.
Let's get some more education and knowledge about what this is, how
serious it is and and then that will steer our steps in what we can do about.
- In the right direction and you know, I brought something else
fun for us to do today. - Oh good. - So one of the other things you're going to find on
the ICD website is just great PDFs handouts on simple little things
that you can do and one of the things that they had that I brought for us
today was a communication piece. So you know how important communication is
in all relationships and this is actually when you're trying to create
change, right? So they have this super fun little thing that says what you want to
avoid, what does not work and practice what does work. - I love this you do more of
what works than what doesn't.
Okay, Marla. Don't say "Just do it, just clean it up. Come on!" - It's not going to work.
- You can try that. - It's not going to work. - We already know it doesn't work so take it from the
pro. - Probably already tried that. - Avoid being a nagger. You know what,
Marla, there's a euphemism for nagging. - Really? - Yeah.
Reminding. We call it reminding but - but it's nagging - it feels like
nagging to them. Don't act like a watchdog. - Ever. You know, checking out,
come over.. - You should not be the clutter cop unless you really want to but
doesn't work. - No, it doesn't work. - Resist criticizing. You know what, there's
a natural response to criticism, defensiveness, protectiveness. Never
ridicule. - Don't make fun of them this is real. - That is so important, Marla, because
from the outside it's easy to look at this and think, oh this is
ridiculous, come on. You know what, an example from our family. I remember my
son had left some things cluttering up the living room right and my sweet wife,
Vicki, went in and she'd had enough and so she said, "Adam, get in here and
clean up all this junk!" And he that's the part, "Mom, it's not junk, it's stuff."
Which maybe was totally the whole the same thing too Vicki. - It's a really big deal.
- It's not junk, it's not. This has symbolic meaning and it carries stories and
there's all kinds of psychological attachments to the junk or stuff that
it looks like to you. Don't exaggerate the consequences. - If you don't clean this up
then you know what's going to happen next year, when you die, I'm going to have to
come in here and that's really not going to help. - Or it's going to destroy your life
in some other way or whatever. Also, eliminate phrases like "I told you so."
"Told you this was going to happen." We don't even need to explain now. You get the
privilege of telling us what doesn't work and you know what this reminded me
of when we got to play on your podcast, your Live On Purpose podcast, we
talked about that only 10% of the human population on the planet Earth is born
with the organizing gene, okay. 10% so if most people can't even get
organized, you can't say just do it, don't be a nagger, watchdog, criticize or
ridicule them, there's all those people out there that can't even get organized
so hoarding and chronic disorganization is this to the nth degree, right? So they
definitely need support so what does work is, listen from an accepting point
of view so in my ebook the art of letting, acceptance, release and
trust, that's why we start out with acceptance so let's not pretend that
it's any different than it is, it's like your thing, it is it is. Right? - It can always
be better, it could always be worse. - It is what it is so we start with acceptance,
listen without judgment and they're going to know the difference
so give your full attention to that person when they're speaking
so if they're trying to share with you and your brain is busy with how you're
going to fix them, that's not going to work. - They'll pick up on it. - They really will
which fits in with think highly of the person and it will come through
in your manner and in your tone, this is a human being who has a serious problem,
it's no different than if they had a heart condition, okay, and they needed to
go get professional help so that human being, you love them, you think highly of
them, you respect them for who they are. - And Marla, thank you for mentioning that
one because this is not acting, you don't act like you respect them,
you respect them, get into that space. - And in what help them
is to focus on their good qualities so yes, maybe they have a hoarding problem
but they've got all kinds of good qualities as a human being you know, so
focus on those. - And they probably don't have that vice that you. - Yeah,
everybody has one, right? It's just that hoarding shows. - Right, it's obvious and so
and it's tempting, isn't it, Marla? To point toward that thing we can see
and then ignore the thing that's going on in our own life. - That stuff is not the problem.
- Everybody's got strings so you're saying focus on their good points, the strengths,
the qualities that you want to emphasize. - And then keep drawing out the best in that
person, you know. So these are things that I practice as a professional organizer,
right, my clients don't know how to organize so I'm drawing out what
does work, what they are doing and constantly putting attention there and
then lastly, this one is so important, recognize and really acknowledge those
baby steps. Every step matters and I say in the art of letting go, if you
release even 3% to 5%, hey, you just opened up the space.
- You're in a better space. - You know so recognize that, oh my gosh,
yes we did clear that counter, this is good. - Well then! - Thank you. You're going to
find that in all kinds of really excellent educational resources on their
website and then I would love love to have you just download for free the art
of letting go, it's a little ebook that I wrote after losing my two parents and
that will help you and this person come out of denial, pick up small project,
step you through how to get it done and then it actually ends with all of my
favorite resources for chronic disorganization, that's simplifying.
-That is powerful. An amazing resource, we'll keep those in the description down
below so that you can access those and easily share them. Do more of what works,
less of what doesn't. Marla be bringing us
today at Live On Purpose TV, her clear and simple solutions are something that
you may want to share with other people as well.