♪ Bob and Brad ♪
♪ The two most famous physical therapists ♪
♪ On the internet ♪
- Hi, I'm Bob Schrupp, Physical Therapist.
- Brad Heineck, Physical Therapist
- We are the most famous physical therapists
on the internet.
- In our opinion. of course.
- Brad, if you've been diagnosed with spondylolisthesis,
success starts here.
- Say no more, Bob.
- And you have been diagnosed.
- Yeah.
- So you're the expert here?
- Well, yeah, I wouldn't know if I'm the expert
but I've had a lot of luck with mine
and learned a lot about obviously for personal reasons
and it's our profession, Bob, so.
- Yeah, I think you've done a great job
with it, Brad, really.
- Yeah.
- You're a really active guy and.
- It, yeah, it's been exciting.
If you have it, don't get too worried about it.
Okay, chances are, there's a lot of people that have it
that aren't even aware of it.
- Sure.
- And there's an estimate of five to seven percent
of the people in the United States have it.
That means 15 to 20 million people.
- That's a lot.
- Right.
- That's a heck of a lot.
- Right, so what is it?
- Well, do you want me to start with that Brad?
- Sure.
- Or you can talk.
- Well we're talking, now you can have spondylolisthesis
which that term big one, it's a Greek term.
They came up on it in 1854 and you know what it means?
Vertebra and then slipped or a slip.
- Okay, which makes sense.
- Right.
- 'Cause that's exactly what's happening.
- It's a slipped vertebra, if you,
and it can happen anywhere along the spine,
typically in the lumbar spine or in the neck.
Probably most of the time.
- Lumbar's low back.
- Yep, lumbar low back is for most of the time is
and we can't do this because this is all stuck together
with a rod going down the middle.
But one of the vertebra, usually L4, L5,
the ones in your low back, L5, S1,
way down here at the belt line.
- Here they are, we pulled 'em out.
- Okay so L4, L5, this is where mine is.
It shifts and it actually moves.
- So this moves forward like that.
- Right, it's like, it's gonna get cut right off.
And it amazes me that it doesn't hurt more
than it does or cause you know.
- Through the spinal cord.
- Or cause paralysis
You know, it seemed like it would the spine so bad,
you wouldn't be able to walk.
- But again, this is shows
how the body does adapt to things.
- Exactly, right Bob.
- It deals with it, so.
- And, and if you're diagnosed with this,
they're gonna give you grade one, grade two, grade three,
or grade four.
- Grade one, grade two, grade three.
What grade four falls off?
- Well, not quite, but if you're at grade four,
that's pretty serious.
- Sure.
Vast majority of people, as matter of fact,
90% are grade two or less.
- Okay and that's where you're at.
- Right.
- Okay.
- Right.
- And you were gonna show your x-rays real quick, Brad.
- Yeah, yeah, so if you got x-rays, you know,
and if you get x-rays at least in a hospital
in the United States, tell 'em you want to get copies
of it so you can have a history yourself.
- Yeah, they all print 'em out for you now a lot time.
- Yeah, actually I got a disc and I printed 'em off
off the disc because if you wanna get another opinion,
they don't have to take another x-rays.
- Right.
- You can take that with you.
- Exactly.
- And that's exactly what I did.
I went to three different doctors to get opinions on this.
Now, if you're not, you might have to come in on this.
- I'd come, I'd go up to her.
- Okay, so we're looking at the side, it's a lateral view.
So you're gonna stand there and then x-ray from this side
and they're gonna see the separation of the vertebra.
- [Bob] Which page you want Brad?
- [Brad] All right so here we got the x-ray
and they're kind of hard to read and see.
So what I'm gonna do is.
- [Bob] That's okay.
- [Brad] Is I outline the vertebra
so it's much easier to see.
You can see the hip is down here.
My sacrum, L4 and L5.
And this is not a pretty picture at all
because L4 disc is shaped like a wedge which is not normal.
I don't like that.
- [Bob] Oh, L5 is.
- [Brad] L5 between L5, thank you.
- [Bob] Yep.
- [Brad] And then, but L4 and L5, you can see the shift.
- [Bob] Yeah.
- [Brad] This should be lined up with this.
And there's no disc in there, Bob.
- [Bob] Right.
- [Brad] I've got no disc there.
- [Bob] They've naturally fused.
- [Brad] Right, I've shrunk.
- [Bob] Yeah.
- [Brad] Now if you go back and you look
at the full picture, L2, L3, here is a big space.
- [Bob] See there's normal space in between.
- [Brad] Yep and then you go between,
then it gets to the shifted forward.
There's the disc has just taking care of itself over time.
And I remember I had back pain for about two years.
I was self-treating I could manage it.
And I have a feeling that's when this big shift took place.
I don't know.
- [Bob] Sure.
- [Brad] Just a theory.
But anyways, the idea is that this fuses together
and we support this with muscles from your body, okay.
And it's gonna be muscles in the front part of your body,
your stomach muscles and your hip muscles
that flex the hip, all support that, okay.
- [Bob] Strengthening all the core muscles.
- [Brad] Exactly.
- [Bob] Right.
- But in one direction, well not just one,
but primarily anterior.
- Right.
- Or the front.
- Right.
'Cause, well, I'll let you go on.
Right, 'cause there's things we wanna avoid
and there's things you want to go ahead and do.
- Well, and we can go to symptoms on this.
If you've got this, I bet you 10 to one that if you're
and this is with me.
If I'm out shopping with my wife and she's doing,
her job is shopping, I'm getting bored.
Standing there for 10 or 15 minutes.
Oh, it's no fun.
- It's killer.
- It starts to hurt here.
Sometimes I get it down my leg 'cause I got,
that nerve gets pinched a little bit.
But the good news is
- You get outta shopping.
- No, I sit down and the pain goes away.
- Right.
- Very quickly.
- Right.
- Very happy then.
Then she can shop more and it doesn't bother me.
I need a place to sit though.
- Sure.
- And it doesn't have to be shopping, any static position.
Any static position just standing will typically
be very uncomfortable.
I find if I do this, it helps.
But sitting always, always makes me feel much better.
- So, that's a good idea actually is to find a chair,
just put your foot up on it, to give yourself some relief
if you have to stand, right.
- Right, yep.
And you can try that.
If you're working overhead, if you're washing the ceiling,
you're gonna get a back ache.
- Sure.
- It's not fun.
It's not good for your, I mean, if you wanna,
if you're not solid there
- Yeah, you don't want things to slip more.
- Right and causing more problems, get that grade three
or grade four.
- So avoid.
- Exactly.
- Avoid overhead work, okay?
- These are the things to avoid extension overhead work.
What else, Brad?
Shopping, standing?
- So, or laying on your stomach.
Typically that's not gonna be comfortable
- Right, yeah, that's a position,
you're gonna be maybe even have a slight bend
when you're sleeping, right?
- Right.
- When you lay on your side.
- Yeah.
- And.
- Well, actually I cannot lay on my sides either.
I lay my side for five or 10 minutes.
It's uncomfortable.
My only position I can sleep comfortably is on my back.
And if I put my feet up.
- Up, okay.
- Yep. I put my legs on top of my wife or on a pillow.
- Okay.
- Just kidding.
Well, but if you bring your legs up,
much more comfortable typically, okay.
- And we've done, we just did a video on bed positioning
and we've showed that how you could take a wedge
or a pillows and put 'em underneath your feet.
- Right.
- When you're laying there.
- Exactly, could you connect one of those up at the end.
- Yeah, I will at the end.
- Excellent, okay.
- Stay until the end and you'll get this.
- [Both] All right.
- Things you should do is.
- Well, no, planks.
You said planks hurt.
- You know, this is something though, planks.
Let's do one Bob.
- Sure.
- This is the biggest craze in abdominal strengthening
in the last five or 10 years is to do planks.
And I agree, they definitely work the core,
but I cannot do this.
I've tried these and I'm gonna stick to it myself.
- [Bob] I'm kinda shaking myself.
- Yeah, look at 'em shake.
But the next day for a few days I was sore.
My back was sore and I said.
- Interesting.
- No more planks for me.
I have, I'm quite certain this has to do
with the spondy diagnosis.
- Sure.
- I mean us Spondies, we gotta stick together, so.
- That's right, Spondies unite.
- Now we've got some, I got three videos on exercises,
on if you have this and it goes through 'em in detail.
I think for me the best thing that works is the ball.
- Sure.
- Got the exercise ball.
- I'm gonna hook that one at the end too.
So, and all the three videos.
- Sure.
- I'll find em all.
- Yep.
- And apparently you wanna avoid heavy lifting too, right?
- Right.
Any extremes, heavy lifting, standing in one place
for a long time.
- So you're not gonna help me move if I'm.
- No, no, as a matter of fact, my daughter was moving
and I told them I'll help with the little stuff.
But, and even the little stuff you gotta be careful.
- Which brings me to a really good point about back pain.
You've really gotta learn to say no.
- Right
- I mean seriously.
I mean, you're not gonna do anybody any good
if you become so disabled, you can't even
get out of a chair.
- Exactly.
- So.
- Oh, one other thing that I think has helped with mine,
'cause with mine, there was a period of two or three years,
I could walk three fourths of a mile
'cause I have it on my road.
I kind of marked off.
My leg would start getting numb because the nerve
was getting pinched and now I can walk three miles.
- And what'd you do differently?
- No symptoms.
Just doing the exercises on the videos coming up.
- Okay.
- And swimming.
I swim two to three days a week.
I don't know if that has a lot to do with it,
but I'm sure it's not making.
- What kind of strokes do you do with a swimming?
- Mostly just the crawl.
- Okay, yeah.
- And the breast stroke I do.
But that hurts my back.
- I was gonna say that would probably hurt.
- Right.
- Yeah.
- So and if you swim right, that's a whole 'nother story.
The swimmers in the crowd, they can enjoy this.
Everyone else will say, who cares about that when you swim?
- So you're gonna tell about the things you can do
and we're gonna show some of those in the videos
but abdominal strengthening is really good.
- Right.
- You had mentioned.
Supine or laying on your back, AB work.
- Right, right.
- So.
- And these are all in the videos and when you do exercise,
the big thing is they should not hurt.
- Right.
- They should actually feel good.
- Right
- All the exercise.
- It's not a no pain, no gain.
- Right.
- This is a no pain, no pain.
- You can get the muscles to hurt from ex, from fatigue.
- Soreness, yeah.
- But your back, your spine should feel pain free.
- Yep.
- So.
- And you talked about the swimming and flex stretching,
is that what the last one is, Brad?
- Stretching?
- Yeah.
- Well, of course, Bob.
Why don't ya move?
This, almost, like, if I've been standing, this feels good.
This usually even feels better.
- [Bob] Oh sure.
- It's like, oh and I'm not gonna hang out here
for 20 minutes but I'll stretch like this
for about 30 seconds at the most,
15 30 seconds, couple reps maybe.
And you just go by how your body feels.
You know when you've had enough, it's like, it's good.
It's not getting any better.
And then you stop that stretch.
- Right and that can make you, allow you to go on then
throughout the day here.
So this is all ways to manage pain.
- Yeah, it's interesting 'cause I can go on through a day
and if I'm moving up and down, even at home doing lawn work,
I'm okay as long as I'm within reason
and you get to know your body.
You know, if I'm lifting up something heavy
so like some wood that I shouldn't be lifting
and I got an awkward position.
It's like.
- Listen to your body.
- Yeah.
- Because it'll teach you a lesson.
- Be smart.
- All right, the videos all should be starting
to come up here.
So, you have the popping.
All right, thanks for watching.