>> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY, WELCOME BACK.
JOINING ME NOW IS A FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR
FOR PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, WHO CURRENTLY HOST HISS HOSTS
DEADLINE: WHITE HOUSE ON MSNBC.
PLEAS WELCOME NICOLLE WALLACE.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.
>> FIRST OF ALL HAPPY INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S DAY.
>> THANK YOU.
>> HOW ARE YOU CELEBRATING?
>> YOU KNOW, THERE IS SO MUCH TO KORCH STILL.
I TO COVER STILL, HI A NORMAL DAY, I DID REMOTE SCHOOL WITH MY
SON, CAME TO WORK AND TWO DAYS OF COVERING THIS REMARKABLE
TIME, SO IT STILL FEELS LIKE A PRIVILEGE.
WE COVERED PRESIDENT BIDEN'S REMARKS WHICH ARE LIKE
EVERYTHING HE IS DOING, IT IS MARKING AN IMPORTANT DAY THAT HE
DID IT WITH THE PROMOTION OF TWO WOMEN TO FOUR FOUR STAR
GENERALS.
SO YOU KNOW, A PRETTY GOOD WOMAN'S DAY SO FAR.
>> Stephen: ABOUT BIDEN, DO YOU ENJOY THE BORING ASPECT OF
THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AS MUCH AS I DO?
>> YOU KNOW, WE, I THINK, I THINK WE HAVE TO MAKE BORING
GREAT AGAIN.
I DON'T THINK IT'S BORING.
I THINK HE INHERITED THE COUNTRY IN ITS MOST TUMULTUOUS MOMENT.
AND I THINK WE ARE STILL IN THAT POSITION WHERE THE CURTAIN IS
STILL GETTING YANKED DOWN ON THE UGLY MESS UNDERNEATH.
SO I THINK THE BIDEN STORY MAY UNFOLD IN LESS VIOLENT WAYS, THE
ACRIMONY OF THE TWEETS AND THE VIOLENT INTERVIEWS ON FOX NEWS,
BUT I THINK THE SUBSTANCE OF WHAT IS BEING PUT DOWN AND
REVEALED IS SOME OF THE MOST TUMULTUOUS THINGS HAVE I EVER
SEEN IN TERMS OF THE PANDEMIC, IN TERMS OF THE RISE IN WHITE
SUPREMACY, IN BEGINNING TO UNPACK WHAT WENT ON FOR FOUR
QUEERS, I THINK IT IS STILL A LOT FOR ME.
>> THE STORY IS FRAUGHT AND THE ACTION IS SUBSTANTIVE BUT IT'S
NO SIZZLE, ALL STEAK, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
THERE IS NO FLASH, IT JUST HAPPENS.
THE NEWS IS ACTUALLY NEWSWORTHY ALL THE TIME WHICH IS WHAT I
REALLY LIKED ABOUT IT.
THE LAST TIME WE SPOKE, 20-- 2019, I THINK, AND SINCE
THEN STARLTING IN AUGUST YOUR SHOW WENT FROM ONE HOUR TO TWO
HOURS.
ARE CONGRATULATIONS IN ORDER OR CONDOLENCES BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO
LOOK TWICE AS LONG.
>> IT IS SUCH A PRIVILEGE.
WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, AN AMAZING TEAM AND IT IS A PRIVILEGE TO
GET TO BE SHEP HARDING THESE HOURS THROUGH.
YOU LOOK AT, YOU DO IT WITH A LOT MORE SKILL AND HUMOR THAN I
DO BUT I LOOK AT THE SAME SORT OF MOMENTS IN OUR COUNTRY, IT
SAY PRIVILEGE.
WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON TV COVERING SOME OF THE EVENTS THIS
YEAR.
WE COVERED ANOTHER IMPEEVEMENT.
I THINK I SAW YOU-- IMPEACHMENT.
I THINK I SAW IF HE BEGINNING OF THE FIRST IMPEACHMENT, THEN A
SECOND IMPEACHMENT.
THEN AN INSURRECTION AND INAUGURATION, SO THERE HAS BEEN
A LOT TO COVER AND IT IS ALL A PRIVILEGE TO SIT WITH ALL OF OUR
COLLEAGUES HERE.
>> YOU WORK FOR THE WHITE HOUSE, FOR SIX YEARS.
SO THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
AND NOW YOU COVER IT.
AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN ON THE INSIDE OF A WHITE HOUSE, THIS
WEEK, THE WEEKEND THE SENATE PASSED BIED EARN'S AMERICAN
RESCUE PLAN, HOW BIG A DEAL IS THIS, AND WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT
THIS ADMINISTRATION THAT THAT WAS THEIR FIRST PRIORITY?
>> WELL, IT IS A HUGE DEAL, I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO SAYS
BACK IN MY DAY.
BACK IN MY DAY WHEN YOU HAD 70% PUBLIC APPROVAL FOR SOMETHING,
IT WAS JUST A NO-BRAINER THAT IT WOULD BE BIPARTISAN, SO IT IS SO
REMARKABLE ARE ALL THESE SORT OF PROOF POINTS OF HOW MUCH THE
COUNTRY HAS CHANGED.
HOW MUCH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS CHANGED.
SO PRESIDENT BIDEN JUST HAS THIS HUGE, HUGE STIMULUS, I THINK
70%, 76% OF ALL NARYN AMERICANS SUPPORT IT, A PLUR ALLITY OF
REPUBLICANS SUPPORT IT.
ZERO REPUBLICANS GOT BEHIND IT.
I WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE TO PUSH BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION IN THE
FIRST YEAR, TED KENNEDY SIGNED OFF THE LEAVE NO CHILD BEHIND,
THERE WAS A HUGE ACCOMPLISHMENT TO HAVE BY PART SAJ
SUPPORT-- BIPARTISAN SUPPORT BUT NOWHERE NEAR 76% OF PUBLIC
APPROVAL FOR EITHER MEASURE, SO IT SEE BIPARTISANSHIP REDEFINED
MIGHT BE ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT SORT OF THINGS THAT
THIS WHITE HOUSE HAS PULLED OFF SO FAR.
>> YOU CALLED YOURSELF A NONPRACTICING REPUBLICAN, IS
THAT WHAT IT IS?
>> I THINK I MOVED INTO SELF-LOATHING FORMER REPUBLICAN.
>> Stephen: I DON'T WANT YOU TO ANSWER FOR THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY AND I'M NOT HERE TO RELITIGATE THE BUSH
ADMINISTRATION.
BUT I USED TO TALK ABOUT THIS THING CALLED POOFINESS, ABOUT
BELIEVING WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE TO WIN THE POLITICAL
FIGHT RATHER THAN WHAT THE FACT WAS SUPPORT.
THAT IS NOT A NEW IDEA.
I THINK TREMP ADDED DEM GOINGERY TO T THAT IS SOMETHING THE BUSH
ADMINISTRATION DIDN'T HAVE, HE WAS NOT A DEMAGOGUE.
THAT IS WHAT TURNED IT IN A POISON OTS POLITICAL WEAPON,
DON'T YOU SEE SOME CONTINUEIUM BETWEEN CARL ROVE, YOU PEOPLE IN
THE REALITY-BASED COMMUNITY, THAT SORT OF BACKHANDED SLAP TO
REALITY THAT LEADS TO THE BIG LIE TODAY?
I SEE THOSE ON A SPECTRUM.
>> I THINK THAT'S FAIR.
I WAS A COMMUNICATOR.
I WAS A SPINNER, SO I HAD CULPABILITY THERE.
BUT IT ALSO GIVES ME AN INCITE.
AND I PROMISE YOU, THE OBSERVATION IS THAT THERE IS NO
LONGER A PARTY TRYING TO PUT THE BEST POSSIBLE SPIN ON THINGS,
THERE A PARTY COMING FROM THE FOUNDATION OF -- THERE IS NO
EXPLANATION ROOTED IN FACT FA FOR JOSH HAWLEY RAISING HIS FIST
AT THE INSURRECTIONISTS.
THERE WAS NO EXPLANATION ROOTED IN FACT FOR NEVER CARING ABOUT
THE COST OF ANYTHING DONALD TRUMP WANTED TO DO BUT HOLDING
THAT UP AS A REASON TO BE AGAINST THE COVID RELIEF PACKAGE
OR I'M SURE THEY WILL FIND A REASON TO BE AGAINST
INFRASTRUCTURE WHICH IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE A THING I'M TOLD BY
SECRETARY BUTTIGIEG IND THIS ADMINISTRATION.
SO I AM NOT HERE TO DEBATE WHETHER IT IS PART OF A
CONTINUUM BUT IT IS NOW NOT ROOTED, PRESIDENT BIDEN HAD A
REALLY DIFFERENT VIEW ABOUT POST WAR IRAQ.
HE BELIEVED IN SEPARATING THE COUNTRIES.
AND THERE WAS A DEBATE BETWEEN DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.
I THINK RIGHT NOW REPUBLICANS, I'M SNOT SURE THEY WOULD
ACKNOWLEDGE THAT A WAR TOOK PLACE IN IRAQ OR AMERICANS DIED
IN IRAQ.
THEY ARE SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH THAT YOU CAN NO LONGER HAVE A
CONVERSATION WITH THEM ABOUT HOW THO SOLVE ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY
DON'T AGREE ON WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE, AND THAT TERRIFIES ME.
>> Stephen: HOW DO YOU THINK-- DO YOU THINK THE
REPUBLICANS HAVE A CHANCE TO GET OUT FROM UNDERNEATH THE SHADOWS
OF DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE THERE ARE BETS BEING LAID IN VARIOUS
PARTS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AS TO WHAT THE FUTURE IS GOING TO
BE AND WHERE THE POWER IS GOING TO RESIDE.
TRUMP HAS SAID YOU CAN'T USE MY NAME OR IMAGE, R SNRKS C-- RNC
OR I WILL SUE YOU AND THE RNC CAPPITY LATED AND WILL HOLD A
FUNDRAISER AT MAR A LAGO.
THEY WILL FEED THE BEAST.
DADDY WILL GET HIS BEEK WET ON THAT ONE.
DOES THAT PAINT THE PICTURE OF TRYING TO GET OUT FROM UNDER HIS
THUMB.
>> I THINK IT IS ON US PEOPLE LIKE ME TO COVER IT DIFFERENTLY,
REPUBLICANS ARE NOT HOSS TAJ TO DONALD TRUFER, WHEN HE WAS
DEPLATFORMED, HE IS A GUY WHO CAN'T TWEET AND THEY ARE SORT OF
WALKING BACK INTO THE CAGE AND LOCKING THE DOOR THEMSELVES AND
THROWING OCCUPANT THE KEY.
THEY ARE NOW WALKING BACK IN.
AND CHOOSING TO ASSOCIATE THEMSELVES WITH SOMEONE WHO
INCITED AN INSURRECTION AGAINST THEM WHO CHANTED HANG MIKE
PENCE.
I THINK THAT THERE THEIR ACT SINCE ELECTION DAY REVEALS
SOMETHING THAT WAS ALWAYS OPAQUE AND MYSTERIOUS TO ME WHILE HE
WAS PRESIDENT.
THEY ARE NOT FORCED TO GO ALONG WITH TRUMPISM BECAUSE THEY HAVE
NO CHOICE.
THEY CHOOSE IT HE IS OFF TWITTER THERE IS NO RATIONAL FEAR OF A
MEAN TWEET.
THEY NOW GO TO MAR A LAGO LIKE IT IS SOME, I DON'T KNOW,
PILGRIMAGE THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO DO.
SO I THINK WE HAVE TO START COVERING IT DIFFERENTLY.
THEY ARE NOW THE ONES WHO ARE CHOOSING TO ASSOCIATE WITH HIM.
THERE IS NOTHING FORCING THEM TO DO SO.
>> Stephen: THERE WEEK MARKS ONE YEAR SINCE COVID UPENDED ALL
OF OUR LIVES.
AND YOU HAVE A SPECIAL ON WEDNESDAY CALLED LIVES WELL
LIVED WHICH IS BASED ON A REGULAR SEGMENT YOU DO ON YOUR
SHOW.
TELL ME HOW IT STARTED.
>> I REMEMBER BEING IN THE WHITE HOUSE ON 9/11 AND ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT NEVER BECAME POLITICIZED FROM THE-- ONE OF A
FEW THINGS WAS REMEMBERING THE PEOPLE ON FLIGHT 93 ARE, FOR
THEIR LAST MOMENTS, FOR THEIR HEROIC ACT.
WE STILL AS A COUNTRY READ THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE IN
THE PO TOWERS.
I ACTUALLY THINK THAT SOME OF THE UNPROCESSED GRIEF AND TERROR
OF WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY MAY HAVE SORT OF SEEPED IN AND
BECOME PART OF OUR BODY POLITICS IN WAYS THAT WE DIDN'T
UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE, EVEN WITH SOME OF THOSE RITUALS OF
GRIEVING.
WHEN PEOPLE STARTED DYING IN HORRIFIC NUMBERS IN APRIL OF
LAST YEAR IN NEW YORK CITY.
IT WAS NOTHING THERE WAS NOTHING, THEY DIED ALONE.
SOME OF THEIR LAST IMAGES WITH THEIR FAMILIES WERE ON COMPUTERS
AND iPADS HOLDINGS THE HANDS OF EXHAUSTED NURSES.
THEY COULDN'T BE BURIED OR WHATEVER THEIR FAITH HAD AS
THEIR RITUAL AND THERE WAS NOTHING.
THERE WERE BEAUTIFUL OBITUARIES WRITTEN IN NEWSPAPERS BUT THAT
WAS IT.
AND I JUST REMEMBER THINKING THAT THAT COULDN'T BE, AND
SURELY SOMEONE WILL DO SOMETHING SOON, BUT UNTIL THEN WE'LL DO
SOMETHING HERE.
AND BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP WAS OUR PRESIDENT, THERE WAS NEVER ANY
NATIONAL EFFORT TOO HOLD THIS FAMILY, THEY DIDN'T GET TO HOLD
THEIR LOVED ONES AS THEY DIED.
AND THERE WAS NEVER ANY HOLDING THEM UP OR ANY ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF
THEIR SACRIFICE BECAUSE OF BEING COMPETENT IN THE LAST
ADMINISTRATION, THE.
AND SO WE STARTED AND WE JUST HAVEN'T STOPPED AND WE HOPE TO
STOP.
WE HOPE EVERYONE IS VACCINATED AND THAT IT IS SOMETHING THAT
WILL HEAL.
IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK IN THE WHITE HOUSE SEEMS
TO BE INTENT ON FEELING.
>> WELL, DEADLINE WHITE HOUSE AIRS WEEKDAYS AND NICOLLE'S
SPECIAL LIVES WELL LIVED AIRS THIS WEDNESDAY ON MSNBC.
NICOLLE WALLACE, EVERYBODY.
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH THE STAR OF I MAY DESTROY YOU,
MICHAELA COEL.
♪♪♪♪♪