FOLKS, MY FIRST GUEST TONIGHT IS THE HOST OF "CUOMO PRIME
TIME" ON CNN.
PLEASE WELCOME BACK TO THE "LATE SHOW," CHRIS CUOMO!
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ( BAND PLAYING )
>> Stephen: GIVE ME THAT!
GIVE ME THAT!
SHOW THE PEOPLE ON THE BACK -- >> STICK TO NEWS.
>> Stephen: THE NEWS IS YOU'VE GOT UNICORN STICKERS ON THE BACK
OF YOUR PHONE.
SHOW THE PEOPLE.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) DID WOLF BLITZER PUT THOSE
THERE?
ARE THOSE FROM YOUR KIDS?
YOUR KIDS PUT THOSE ON THERE?
>> NO.
>> Stephen: YOU PUT THOSE ON THERE?
>> DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME HAVING THESE ON THE BACK OF MY
PHONE?
>> Stephen: NO, I WANT TO CELEBRATE YOUR CHOICES, I'M JUST
CURIOUS HOW THEY GOT THERE.
>> WELL, HERE'S HOW -- SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE A CLEAR STONE.
SOMETIMES I START TO GET A LITTLE JADED.
SOMETIMES I'M VERY SAD, AND THAT'S PURPLE.
THE RAINBOW BRINGS ME BACK, AND IT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I WAS A
UNICORN THAT COULD EAT PINEAPPLES AND THEN SPIT OUT
DIAMONDS.
>> Stephen: AS LONG AS IT SPITS.
YOU SAID SPIT, RIGHT?
>> YES.
LET'S GET AFTER IT.
>> Stephen: YES, LET'S GET AFTER IT.
THAT IS YOUR MOTTO, "LET'S GET AFTER IT."
WHAT ARE YOU GETTING AFTER IT DURING THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL?
HOW ARE YOU GETTING AFTER IT?
>> LOOK, THIS IS ABOUT ONE THING NOW FOR THE DEMOCRATS.
ARGUABLY ON THE MACRO LEVEL, THEY WANT TO GET THE STORY OUT,
AND THEY'RE RECYCLE THE STORY AND GO THROUGH IT WITH DIFFERENT
ITERATIONS.
TODAY I THOUGHT THEY HAD A BETTER JOB WITH STRUCTURE HAVING
CHAIRMAN NADLER SET OUT WHAT HE WAS GOING TO TELL YOU AND WHY.
THAT'S IMPORTANT IN AN ARGUMENT BECAUSE PEOPLE GET LOST IN THE
SAMENESS.
>> Stephen: I THOUGHT REPETITION TENDS TO DRIVE HOME
THE POINT OF THE STORY.
>> I'LL TELL YOU WHY YOU'RE WRONG.
HERE'S WHY.
>> Stephen: NO, I'LL TELL YOU YOU WHY YOU'RE WRONG.
>> IT'S NOT AS GOOD.
REPETITION CAN BE GOOD WITH SALIENT FACTS, BUT IF YOU SAY
WE'RE HERE BECAUSE HE ABUSED HIS POWER, BECAUSE HE PRESSURED
UKRAINE AND USED AID AS A LEAVER UP AGAINST AN ANNOUNCEMENT OF
INVESTIGATIONS AGAINST THE BIDENS, IF YOU SAY THAT 15
TIMES, YES, IT CAN BE PERSUAS PERSUASIVE.
THE PRESIDENT HAS A GENIUS WITH THIS WITH VOTERS.
I'LL KEEP SAYING IT, EVENTUALLY, YOU WILL BELIEVE IT.
THAT WON'T WORK IN THAT ROOM.
YOU NEED TO PLAY TO THE PRE-CONCEPTIONS.
>> Stephen: ARE THEY PLAYING TO THE ROOM OR IN SOME WAYS
PLAYING TO PEOPLE AT HOME?
PEOPLE HAVE SAID THERE'S NO WAY ANY REPUBLICAN WILL CHANGE THEIR
BEHIND, BUT THE PUBLIC MAY CHANGE THEIR MIND AND THAT'S THE
WAY.
THEY HAVE NO INTEREST IN TRUTH, THEY HAVE A FEAR TO HAVE THE
VOTERS, AND ISN'T THE POINT TO CHANGE THE MIND TO HAVE THE
PEOPLE AT HOME?
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) >> I'M WAITING FOR THEM TO
REWARD YOUR CYNICISM.
>> Stephen: NO, I'M NOT CYNICAL AT ALL.
>> NO!
>> Stephen: OKAY, GO AHEAD.
GO AHEAD.
>> NO, NO, PLEASE.
IT'S YOUR SHOW.
( LAUGHTER ) >> Stephen: WELL, EVIDENTLY
NOT.
GO AHEAD.
>> NO.
WELL, IF YOU INSIST.
WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THIS, YOU'RE RIGHT, THEY WANT AMERICA TO
UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.
IT MAY BE THE FIRST TIME PEOPLE ARE PAYING ATTENTION, AND THAT'S
UNDERSTANDABLE.
IN TERMS OF MOVING VOTES IN THE ROOMS, THAT'S WHERE THE
WITNESSES COME IN.
I THINK IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR SENATORS TO JUSTIFY NOT HAVING
WITNESSES.
WHY?
BECAUSE THIS IS A TRIAL COURT, AND YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE
TRIERS OF FACT.
YOU KNOW THE RECORD IS INCOMPLETE, YOU KNOW WHY IT IS
INCOMPLETE.
THE SPIN IS THEY RUSHED IT, THE HOUSE.
>> Stephen: DO YOU THINK THAT WHEN IT COMES AFTER BOTH THE
DEMOCRAT HOUSE MANAGERS ARE PRESENTING THEIR CASE AND THEN
THE PRESIDENT'S TEAM HAS DONE THEIR REBUTTAL SUCH AS IT IS OF
THAT CASE, DO YOU THINK, WHEN THE VOTE COMES UP, THERE WILL BE
WITNESSES?
WILL FOUR REPUBLICANS BREAK AWAY, IN YOUR OPINION?
>> I SAY YES.
>> Stephen: BASED ON WHAT?
NOTHING.
( APPLAUSE ) >> Stephen: I HOPE YOU'RE
RIGHT.
I REALLY DO.
>> I DO, TOO.
FIRST OF ALL, JOKING ASIDE FOR JUST A SECOND, I BELIEVE IN
OPTIMISM.
I BELIEVE IN HOPE.
I THINK THAT ONE OF THE MISTAKES THE MEDIA TENDS TO MAKE IS YOU
PLAY TO THE ANIMUS, YOU PLAY TO THE HOSTILITY, AND THERE IS A
PERPETUATION IN THAT.
I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT SENATORS WILL RECOGNIZE
THEIR OBVIOUS DUTY IN THIS SITUATION.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE.
I ACTUALLY WOULD ARGUE THAT HAVING WITNESSES HELPS THE
PRESIDENT BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR,
STEPHEN.
IF YOU HAVE, LET'S SAY, BOLTON, MULVANEY, BLAIR, DUFFEY COME IN,
WHAT IS THIS BELIEF THEY WILL SAY THINGS THAT ARE SO
INCRIMINATING?
YOU MAY HAVE THEM COME ON AND I THINK THE DEMOCRATS HAVE
OVERPLAYED THEIR HAND IN THE PAST TO SAY IF WE CAN JUST GET
THIS PERSON OR THAT PERSON, BUT THEN IT'S NOT AS PERSUASIVE AS
YOU HOPED.
>> Stephen: BECAUSE YOU THINK PERHAPS THESE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE
INFORMATION.
>> NO, THEY HAVE THEY ABSOLUTELY HAVE THE INFORMATION.
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THIS, IF THEY WANT TO CALL IT A SHAM,
THE SHAM IS THAT YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO SAYS HE DID
NOTHING WRONG, THAT EVERYTHING IS PERFECT, AND HE'S THE ONLY
PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MY PROFESSION OF DOING THIS WHERE
SOMEBODY HAD A PERFECT ALIBI AND HID IT FROM INVESTIGATORS.
NOBODY DOES THAT.
( APPLAUSE ) >> Stephen: ARE YOU
IMPLYING -- I JUST WANT TO SAY ARE YOU SAYING EVEN IF WE HAD
THESE FOUR WITNESSES, AGAIN WE BOTH HOPE THERE WILL BE
WITNESSES -- >> THEY WILL BE DOING THEIR JOB.
>> Stephen: -- IS IT POSSIBLE THESE FOUR MEN YOU NAMED WOULD
NOT GO UP THERE AND TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND
NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?
>> NO, I'M NOT SAYING THAT.
YOU ARE SO CYNICAL.
>> Stephen: I'M ASKING IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
YOU'RE SAYING THEY KNOW BUT YOU MAY NOT SAY IT.
>> I'VE NEVER SAID IT.
>> Stephen: NO, I ASKED YOU AND YOU SAID --
>> YOU'RE SAYING WHAT I'M NOT SAYING --
>> Stephen: YOU SAID MULVANEY IS A LIAR.
>> I'VE NEVER EVEN HEARD IT.
>> Stephen: MULVANEY IS A LIER AND THAT'S NOT EVEN BOLTON'S
MUSTACHE.
>> I NEVER SAID IT THOUGH I HAVE HEARD THAT AS THE MUSTACHE.
>> Stephen: IT'S NOT HIS MUSTACHE.
>> THEY'RE VERY EASY TO FAKE.
>> Stephen: YOU SAID IT'S A TASSEL HE STOLE FROM A STRIPPER.
>> NO.
NO, I DID NOT SAY THAT.
>> Stephen: CHRIS CUOMO SAID THAT.
>> NO, I DID NOT SAY IT.
>> Stephen: WE'LL TAKE A BREAK AND BE BACK WITH MORE CHRIS
CUOMO.
WE'RE GOING TO GET AFTER IT!