- [Kim] Hi, this is Kim from Khan Academy,
and today I'm learning more about Article VII
of the U.S. Constitution, which is the provision
that specified the conditions
for the Constitution to become law.
It reads,
The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States,
shall be sufficient for the Establishment
of this Constitution between the States
so ratifying the Same.
Although this sounds simple,
it reminds us that when the Framers finished
drafting the Constitution in Philadelphia in 1787,
it was by no means a done deal.
At least nine states had to ratify the Constitution
in order to replace the existing government
under the Articles of Confederation.
To learn more about the ratification process,
I sought out the help of two experts.
Mark Graber is the Jacob A. France Professor
of Constitutionalism at the University of Maryland
Francis King Carey School of Law.
Michael Rappaport is the Darling Foundation Professor
at the University of San Diego School of Law.
Professor Graber, can you tell us a little bit
about the political context of ratification?
What was going on at this time as
the Framers tried to put a new Constitution
into the fabric of the United States?
- [Mark] Well, one central problem
of the Articles of Confederation was the Articles required
that all 13 states consent for any amendment.
And it turned out, at this time,
Rhode Island was a great outlier,
so Rhode Island wasn't going to consent to much of anything.
And, in fact, Rhode Island did not even send delegates
to the convention that drafted the Constitution.
So the Framers knew
that if you had the unanimous rule for ratification,
it would not work.
So instead, they chose nine, it's about 2/3, 3/4,
in part to make sure Rhode Island, one outlier,
could not prevent adoption.
- [Michael] So let's remember, there's two stages here
in how the Constitution gets written and ratified.
So first, it's written
in what's called the Drafting Convention
or the Philadelphia Convention,
which was held during the summer of 1787.
And in that convention, it was pretty much in agreement
that the Federal Government needed to be made stronger,
but that was just a proposal.
In order for the Constitution to be ratified,
it needed nine of the 13 states,
and so it went to the second stage.
And there, things were, in some ways,
gonna be more difficult
because there was a variety of viewpoints
in the different states.
And the main question that came up
in state after state after state was
was the Federal Government being given
too much additional power?
Under the previous regime of the Articles of Confederation,
the Federal Government had very limited powers,
and the Constitution was gonna
give the Federal Government more power.
- [Mark] They wanted a strategy that,
once the ball started rolling,
states that were slower
were going to be faced with a choice.
You could get in on the inside
and maybe effect some changes early.
But if you were left out,
whatever happened would happen without you,
and a lot of states, at the end,
were fearful of being left out.
- [Michael] This strategy worked.
And as they went through in tough states, as time went on,
so New Hampshire, Virginia,
New York, North Carolina, Rhode Island,
in order to get ratification,
each time, they promised, we'll have a Bill of Rights
and those states added
a list of amendments that they wanted
added to the Constitution.
- [Kim] So was it controversial that the Framers decided
that only nine states would be necessary
to ratify the Constitution?
- [Mark] Very controversial.
One of the central points of Anti-Federalist
was that this was illegal,
that the existing Constitution said all states,
and therefore only all states could change the Constitution.
- [Michael] So in that respect,
it was somewhat controversial.
Another way in which it departed from the Articles
is the Articles said you needed the state legislatures
to approve the amendments,
and the U.S. Constitution said, no,
we want state conventions,
special bodies elected by the people,
to approve these things.
Why did they say that?
Because they feared that the state legislatures,
who would be losing a lot of power under the Constitution,
would vote against it.
So they wanted sort of to go directly to the people
in these conventions and bypass the state legislatures.
- [Kim] So we know that there were some opponents
of this new Constitution.
How close did they actually come
to preventing its ratification?
- [Michael] Well, it was a very close fight.
We look back on it,
and eventually all 13 states are gonna ratify,
and it just looks like, oh well,
that wasn't too much of a trouble.
But it was very close,
and things could have easily gone in the opposite direction.
One of the ways in which it was close was
that there were just very close votes.
Massachusetts was
187 to 168.
New Hampshire was 57-47.
New York was 30-27.
So very close votes involved,
but, you know, a couple of people changing their mind,
and that would've meant various states didn't ratify.
In addition to that,
some of the states actually did not ratify.
So the first thing that happened was Rhode Island,
early on in the process, says,
we don't like your horrible Constitution.
They all expected that.
We're not gonna hold even a convention.
You want us to hold a convention.
We're not gonna hold a convention.
We're just gonna have a vote in state.
And that vote in the state,
90% of the people voted against the Constitution.
So, in a way, Rhode Island actually
voted against ratification,
although it didn't use the proper method.
North Carolina, also, they held a convention,
and they were very upset about there not being
a Bill of Rights in the Constitution.
And they just didn't approve it.
They didn't disapprove it,
they just did nothing, and they waited.
So, in a way, two of the states
voted against ratification.
- [Mark] North Carolina had not yet ratified
when George Washington took office.
So, in fact, when George Washington took office,
there were only 11 states in the Union.
At the end of the day, crucial people,
I think, decided it was better to sign the Constitution
and be in on the ground floor
than stay out and see what happened.
- [Kim] Interesting, so who are some of the major players
involved here, and what were they arguing about?
- [Michael] There were the Federalists,
who were arguing in favor of ratifying the Constitution,
and the Anti-Federalists,
who were arguing against ratifying the Constitution.
So the Federalists,
two of the very famous ones are familiar names,
Alexander Hamilton and James Madison.
Those two people, though, were also particularly important
because they decided, Hamilton said,
"We're gonna have a tough time
"getting ratification in New York.
"We need to write some essays defending the Constitution."
And so Hamilton and Madison cooperated together
and wrote what we now call The Federalist Papers,
which were simply essays written in the newspapers,
trying to urge the New York Convention
to ratify the Constitution.
Eventually, those essays were sent to other states
and became known, and now we come to revere those essays
as The Federalist Papers, but they were originally
just kind of advocacy pieces for ratifying the convention.
Now, there were also Anti-Federalists.
- [Mark] The Anti-Federalists, in part,
were simply people who opposed the Constitution.
And just as is the case that, say, people opposed Obamacare
from both the left and the right,
people who opposed the Constitution
opposed it for many different reasons,
and one of their problems was they were not a united bunch.
But, in general, these were people fearful
of a very strong national government.
They believed states were sovereign,
they wanted to keep power local,
and they were very fearful of
what they perceived to be an elite,
who would run the Constitution after ratification.
The names that people may know who were Anti-Federalists
were people like Patrick Henry and Samuel Adams.
- [Kim] So what were some of the major arguments made
in favor of adopting this new Constitution?
- [Michael] There were, I think, two types of arguments.
People felt that the Articles were not working properly.
They had all kinds of problems.
And one of the strongest arguments
that The Federalist Papers made was that
if we don't fix this and make for a stronger union together,
what'll happen is, we'll break apart.
Look at what happens when you have a bunch of states
all next to one another in a land area.
We know what that looks like, it's called Europe.
And what happens in Europe?
They fight wars with one another all the time,
and those wars are very problematic.
You have to have big armies, standing armies.
Now, there were also the particular arguments about
what powers were missing that the Federal Government had.
The main arguments were made was
the Federal Government did not have enough power.
So they didn't have, for example, the taxing power,
and they didn't have a way of enforcing treaties
against the states very well.
And some of the states were putting tariffs up,
so interfering with trade within the country.
- [Mark] So states would set tariffs on out-of-state goods.
States wouldn't contribute to the national government.
Second, we needed to present a united front
to foreign governments.
So we were very worried, what would happen
if South Carolina formed an alliance with England
and North Carolina formed an alliance with France?
That wouldn't be good.
The country needed to speak with one voice.
- [Kim] So those are some of the arguments made
for adopting the Constitution.
What were some of the arguments against
adopting this new Constitution?
- [Mark] Well, first argument was,
even though most Anti-Federalists admitted
the Articles needed some repair,
they said it's not really urgent.
It's not like the house is gonna fall down tomorrow.
It's just, you know, the wind is coming through,
and we can figure it out.
We really want a better Constitution.
The other arguments were the Constitution
put too much power in the national government.
It put too much power in elites.
The fear was if you had national elections,
only elites would win.
If you had local elections,
people the people actually knew would win.
- [Kim] So they thought a big national government
would be too far away from the people
to know what they really needed,
as opposed to state governments,
which they perceived as being sort of more personal,
closer to the needs of individuals?
- [Mark] So compare two kinds of elections.
First, how many people really know anyone
who runs for senator, who runs for president,
that you're on a first-name basis with?
Now compare, you're in a school club.
Chances are, when someone runs for an officer
of the school club, you know who they are.
- [Michael] Another type of argument was,
if you give the Federal Government this power,
and even if, and the Federalists will always argue
that the power was limited that they were being given
to the Federal Government.
And the Anti-Federalist came back and says,
well, you say it's limited,
but what we know from historical experience is,
is that once a government's in power,
it tends to seize more power.
There's a lot of vague phrases in the Constitution,
and the Federal Government will use those vague phrases
to assert greater and greater power.
- [Kim] What were some of the strategies
that the Framers used to entice some of the opponents
of a strong central government to ratify the Constitution?
- [Michael] So the first thing that they did was
to try to build up momentum.
So they knew there were certain states
which were strongly in favor of ratification.
Small states sometimes wanted ratification.
So the first state that comes in is Delaware,
and they vote 30 to zero for the Constitution.
And a bunch of early states,
so let's say the first five states,
all vote for ratification by pretty lopsided margins.
So that builds up a kind of momentum.
All right, we have five states, we only need four more.
Of course, the next ones that were gonna come
were gonna be much more difficult.
And they then needed to change
their strategy at that point.
- [Mark] You know, they argued like crazy.
The Federalist Papers are a very famous example.
They indicated they'd be open to amendment
once the Constitution was ratified.
Then, again, in Pennsylvania,
when Anti-Federalists boycotted the convention,
and the result is the convention didn't have a quorum.
They ordered the Sergeant at Arms to a tavern.
The Sergeant at Arms found some boycotting Anti-Federalists
and physically put them in the building
so they could count for a quorum.
- [Kim] (laughing) That's terrific.
- [Mark] That one doesn't get told in a whole lot
of history books. (Kim laughs)
- [Kim] Wow.
- [Mark] The Framers could play rough-and-tumble politics
with the best of them.
- [Kim] A lot of the things that pop up
at the time of the framing,
I think, we look back on today and imagine,
how would this work in today's era,
with, you know, 330 million Americans?
Do you think the system under the Articles of Confederation
with a smaller, more local government
could possibly work today?
- [Mark] Well, among other things,
the Articles had no great means
of collecting taxes or gaining revenue.
Given that modern government needs trillions of dollars,
the Articles, if you got a thousand dollars,
it was a miracle, so the Articles clearly don't work.
But the Articles were inadequate
for 18th-century government.
They were clearly inadequate
or would be clearly inadequate for 21st-century government.
Now, the Constitution appears to have been adequate
for 18th-century government.
Whether it is adequate for 21st-century government
is a fair question.
- [Michael] One of the interesting questions about
the Constitution is how democratic is the Constitution?
This debate about how democratic the Constitution is
actually enters into the question about ratification.
On one level,
the Constitution was democratic
because each state in these ratification conventions
voted on whether to ratify by majority vote.
On the other hand, at the federal level,
the ratification requirement required nine out of 13.
And the idea there would be we needed more buy-in.
We needed a limitation on simple majority rule
in order to make the system function well,
in order to produce a Constitution
that would have support from the whole country.
The interesting thing about that supermajority rule
and something that people don't often
make the connection with is we probably owe
our Bill of Rights to that supermajority rule.
Because if only seven of the 13 states, the mere majority,
had been needed to ratify the Constitution,
then it's quite possible that the Federalists
wouldn't have had to promise to put a Bill of Rights
into the Constitution because they wouldn't have needed to.
And they were initially quite opposed
to putting a Bill of Rights in the Constitution.
It was only the fact that they needed nine
out of the 13 states that really forced their hand
and forced them to promise
that they would put the Bill of Rights in there.
So we see the, in terms of the ratification,
that there's both sort of democratic elements
but also republican or supermajority elements.
- [Kim] So we've learned that it wasn't easy
to ratify the Constitution.
The Framers bypassed state legislatures
and went directly to the people in state conventions,
hoping that momentum and arguments
for a stronger Federal Government would entice
the opponents of the Constitution to ratify it.
It took until 1789
for nine out of 13 states to ratify the Constitution
and finally make it law.
To learn more about Article VII, check out
the National Constitution Center's Interactive Constitution
and Khan Academy's resources
on U.S. government and politics.