I know you're in America to talk to your allies about things like this, said a
setting sending battle tanks. What is their answer and why is there no
decision? Henry, we have been talking about the
need to provide Ukraine with tanks for quite some time now.
And as our presidents said many times, as our minister of defense has said many
times, there are no rational reasons, it would seem, why Ukraine is still not
provided with the heavy tanks. We are at a stage of the warfare in
which missile terror continues, in which Russians continue to pulverize our
cities. So time like our president, Mr.
Zelinsky said, is not on our side. And time is used by Russia as a weapon.
And just to give you an illustration. This was Ramstein meeting number eight,
but we've already had 12 massive missile strikes on Ukraine.
Now, that means and illustrates that we are very grateful for all the support
that we received from our Western allies.
But it seems like we're always a couple of steps behind and we should be couple
of steps ahead because every day results in more destruction, every day results
in more civilian casualties. And, you know, there is no
excuse to procrastinate. We can.
We have shown the Ukrainian army has shown it many times that we can defeat
the enemy on the battlefield. Moreover, in the last six months, the
enemy has not had any considerable military success on the battlefield.
Now we can be even more efficient. We can be even more successful with the
use of these weapons that we are requesting.
And tanks, of course, are one of the top priorities.
Now, the decision has not been reached today at Ramstein, but we will not stop
at advocating and further talking to our partners about providing Ukraine with
tanks, because there is a very deep understanding that Ukraine is now
fighting not just for our territory, not just for our people.
We are essentially defending the eastern flank of NATO, all our western
neighboring countries, the Baltic states, Poland, they all have a very
good understanding of the real threat of Russian army advancing further west.
This is why I believe and this is how it was in the past with Patriots high
masters. First, it was difficult to take the
decision that it was taken by our allies and now we have them.
Right. So you're see, what you're saying is
that at some point you do believe whether it's lepers or Abrams, they're
coming to Ukraine. There's also New York Times reporting
that U.S. officials are potentially warming up to
the idea that Ukraine should have the power to strike Crimea.
This is something new. Is that your understanding?
We have said many times that our goal is the restoration of territorial integrity
of Ukraine within the internationally recognized borders.
And that, of course, includes Crimea now.
And we have been asking our allies to provide, especially the United States.
We have been asking to get the longer fire, longer range missiles like attack
comes missiles, because they will, of course, enable our army to be even more
efficient. So, you know, it doesn't mean to say
that we are ready to start militarily attacking Crimea tomorrow.
No, but being provided with these weapons will ensure that our army is
capable of targeting logistical hub supply lines of the enemy.
And this will, of course, make it impossible for them to fight on.
This will force them to retreat, which is exactly what has happened before in
places like Kharkiv and most recently in CAC son.
Uri, I want to be specific about these tanks because we're talking about a lot
of different hardware. We were just showing our viewers a
little bit of a menu of the various tanks that we're discussing here as
opposed to leopard tanks that are made in Germany.
Some lawmakers here in the United States, including Senator Lindsey
Graham, are urging the U.S., the Biden administration, to send American Abrams
tanks to, quote, open the floodgates and compelled Germany to send their own.
But do you actually want Abrams tanks that run on a jet engine and get three
gallons of gas per mile? We understand they also require an
enormous amount of training with those help you?
Well, first of all, I would like to say that countries, as you know, the United
Kingdom has already made that decision. They've already overcome that mental
block. And they will provide Ukraine with 14
within a squadron of their Challenger 2 tanks.
So that's a sign of leadership. Of course, we would hope that the U.S.
will also show their leadership in providing Ukraine with tanks and they
will make that decision. Now, of course, there are nuances about
the logistics, about the maintenance of different types of tanks.
But look, we have shown in the past, for example, when the decision was made by
our allies to stop providing Ukraine with Western artillery, we received
different kinds of artillery. You know, we had armed triple sevens
from the U.S. We had seized us from our European
allies. So
in essence, we've shown that it is possible to use different types of
Western weapons as long as they are, you know, put to good use.
So there are nuances. But of course, Ukraine, if Ukraine gets
Abrams tanks from the U.S., this, of course, will set an example for all
other countries. And Germany is very explicit about that,
for example. So that sounds like a yes.
General Mark Milley, the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said today at
Ramstein that NATO has never been more unified in light of Germany's
hesitation. Do you agree?
Well, we believe that indeed during this war and the Ramstein meeting is proof of
that, there is not one NATO country which is
not supporting Ukraine. Everybody is in full understanding of
what kind of threat we are facing. And we are confident that this the
hesitation which is still taking place with regards to providing Ukraine with
certain types of weapons will be overcome with time.
Because I would like to just stress that this is exactly how it worked with, for
example, the high Mars and other air systems.
This is was this was the case with, for example, Patriot Air Defense Systems and
other types of modern Western air defense systems.
So I would just like to repeat that. Let's be one step ahead of the enemy,
not one step behind. So so what's the timeline here?
You seem very confident that you're gonna get the tanks.
When do you expect this hesitation, as you call it, to wrap up?
Well, it's very difficult to predict exactly when that decision will be
taken. I can just assure you that we will not
stop talking to our partners. Our minister of defense, Mr.
Alexis Resnick of will continue to discuss this with his counterparts on a
daily basis. As you have noticed, our president, Mr.
Zelinsky, he keeps stressing the need in tanks every day.
So we hope that, you know, we will be able to break this glass ceiling and get
the tanks soon, because look for us every day of procrastination results.
Like I said before, in deaths and destruction.
And we must stop this. When it comes to Germany and their
defense minister, he's been in the job for 72 hours.
Boris Pistorius, he's never really had any military background.
Are you confident this is an individual, your boss, the Ukraine defense minister
can work with? Look, of course, we never discuss the
internal appointments of our allies. What we can go by is even if we look at
the way that Germany's military support of Ukraine evolved, it is quite
impressive. So at first, Germany was very hesitant
to provide it. Now we are getting from them
Gephardt systems, for example, lots of other different other types of military
assistance. So, you know, we just need to keep
talking and I think it will happen. President Zelinsky or he told the
economic forum in Davos this week he was speaking remotely that the war will be
won in the Dunn bus. Is that how you force Russia to the
negotiating table or do you see that in lieu of the negotiating table?
By now, we understand one thing very clearly that this war will have to be
won on the battlefield. And of course, any war in the history of
mankind ends in negotiations. But we have been very explicit about
preconditions for any negotiating process.
And this, of course, first and foremost means the complete withdrawal of Russian
troops. Right now, the epicenter of the war is
in Donbas. We know that Russians are amassing their
army in Donbas. We know that they are planning new waves
of mobilization. We know that from day one of this
aggression gaining full control of Donbass area of Donbass region was one
of their top military priorities. They have not achieved that goal and
they will never achieve that goal because we are determined to continue to
push. And I just have to repeat that we need
more weapons to do it. Look, we are not asking our Western
allies to fight this war for us, even though it is a war for our common shared
values, for our common freedom. What we are saying and this is something
that the minister of defense of Ukraine repeats very often, give us the tools
and we will finish the job. This is such a simple formula to
understand. Look, thanks.
One thing is to use those tanks in Ukraine.
Now, when it is still possible. But if the allies don't give us those
tanks, there could be a day when they will have to use them themselves.
Because I will repeat. Russia has no intention to stop in
Ukraine. Russia's plan is to reverse history to
the level of at least like their leader has said, 1997.
And this was when countries like Poland, Hungary, the Baltic states, Romania.
They were not not members of NATO alliance.
So we know very well what kind of threat we are faced with.
And we are sure that our allies understand as well that it is better for
all of us to end this in Ukraine and we can do it.
We have shown that we can do it. Our allies have shown that they are
capable of making these important decisions.
And it just about time we get on with it and finish this in 2023.