Nicky: So, if we're talking about postnatal depression
and anxiety, what are things
that mothers and fathers need to be looking out for
as I suppose, warning signs in themselves
and also in each other to then go and ask for some help?
Laura: Yeah, so, sometimes people get really confused
between postnatal depression, baby blues,
and just being tired.
Because they all kind of look similar.
I guess the difference with postnatal depression is
that it lingers and it doesn't get better
after a good night's sleep.
So if you had a few nights bad sleep
and you say, you know what?
I need a good night's sleep
and you go and have that good night's sleep
and the next day you're still feeling like a bad person
that you're not enjoying spending time with your baby,
that you're still really irritable
and you're just not feeling like yourself.
And it's been going on for a few days,
maybe between months one and two
or any time after one month
that's when we start thinking,
okay, maybe it's something else.
And it's really about I'm not coping,
when we see a postnatal depression as well.
And we see it in dads as well.
They may be really distant from their partner.
They may not wanna be spending time with their baby as well
and they may be coming home and irritable and tired as well.
So give each other a break,
give each other a night off from sleeping
and taking care of bub and then re-evaluate
and if the symptoms are still there, then get some help.
So things that we can do is chat
with a maternal health nurse
which mothers have access to
and I really encourage fathers if they're having any
of those feelings to also chat with their GP.
Do some research as well
to find out is your experience really similar to others?
'Cause a lot of the time it's that parental guilt
but it's actually really normal
and it's not postnatal depression,
it's unrealistic expectations.
You're putting too much on your plate
and that's why seeing a professional is really good
to kinda work out what it is.
So I would say educate yourself as well.
Do some readings, you can also call up some experts.
Call up some psychologists and say hey, this is
what I'm experiencing,
do you think I'd benefit from some help?
And they can also link you in with some services,
there's some online services as well.
So things like PANDA they have a lot of resources there
and it'll help determine is this postnatal depression,
is it not?
Am I just tired and a bit down in the dumps
because there's something else in my life
that I'm unhappy about?
Which, again, you can still get some support with.
What is really, really, really helpful though,
is caring for yourself.
So it's things like making sure that you're eating,
making sure you're getting enough sleep,
cut out the caffeine, cut out the nicotine,
try to avoid screens in your bedroom.
Find the time to switch off, find the time to exercise.
Put baby in the pram and go for a walk.
These things are really, really important
and if all else fails, ask for help.
It's the number one thing
that we don't do when we are struggling
and yet the most helpful thing
that we can do when we're feeling in over our heads
so ask friends, family, your partner,
anyone in your mothers group
or a health professional for help
and most people are so happy to help.
Nicky: I agree, that's the one thing we don't do.
We're very bad at doing it, I think.
And always, everybody's gonna say, yes I'll help you.
You know, that's the thing.
Nobody's gonna say, "Nah!"
"I'm not gonna help you.
"I don't care if you're struggling."
Everybody's gonna help you.
Laura: I know, I mean people love to help.
It feels good to help other people.
I've made a career out of it, I love it!
And it's so rewarding,
and normally helping a mom means you get to spend time
with bub, so it's fantastic.
So, if in my mothers group
or if I've got friends who have a baby
I'll say to them, you know what,
give me the baby we're gonna go for a walk.
Go have a bath, go have a shower, go for a nap.
Whatever it is that you need, I'm gonna take this off you.
Do not do the housework, that can wait.
Nicky: I know, I know, right.
Laura:'Cause it's never gonna be all done.
There's always gonna be something else
that you could be doing.
So, ask yourself what do I need right now,
to get through the next minute,
the next hour, the next day, the next week?
And start doing more of that.
And prioritize it as well, don't prioritize the housework.
People aren't expecting to come to your house
and for it to look like a display home.
Let some things slide, work out your negotiables,
your non-negotiables.
Do the things that have to be done
and then cut yourself some slack.
Nicky: That's really good advice.
So, what are some other ways that we
as a village or as a community
can be helping mothers, these mothers,
new mothers who are maybe sort of,
we can see that they're not really coping
or they've told us that they're not coping?
Or actually just any new mother, how can we be helping them?
Laura:I think just being a sounding board is really helpful.
Being a new mom can be really isolating.
Not a lot of women do have other
moms around them that they feel
comfortable to ask for help with.
If you can imagine you're a new mom,
you're really tired, you're feeling overwhelmed.
You're feeling like a bad parent.
You don't then wanna go to your friend,
who looks like they're coping with the new mom-thing.
I think I'm not coping with this at all.
It's a really vulnerable position
to be in, to be able to ask for help.
So, I think a lot of what they need
is just to know there's other women
going through the exact same thing.
And that we're all feeling vulnerable.
We're all feeling uncertain, we're all learning.
And some of us are struggling more
than others and that's actually okay.
It's okay to get some support.
So, having resources, which you're building,
which is amazing is really, really helpful.
And just being given the okay,
that you're okay, you're doing amazing,
here's some things that you can do.
Nicky: I find too, what I really actually dislike seeing
and I see it a lot and you probably do too,
especially online, is someone reaching out for help
and saying, I mean I see it in the field of sleep,
I'm not coping, I'm fully sleep-deprived,
my child's doing this, this and this.
And what I always see, is everybody going
"oh, that's normal, it's fine, welcome to motherhood".
And it really irritates me because
this person is actually asking for help.
And we've just talked about how hard
that is to ask for help and how we don't do it enough.
And so I see these women doing it
and they're instantly shut-down
by people going, that's normal.
I'm like, you're not giving that person a solution.
Or an idea or a suggestion, you're basically
just telling them to suck it up.
And stop whinging because you're in the same boat too.
That's not helpful to anyone, is it?
Laura: It's not helpful and what I find is
a lot of people who do that, they're actually
they're well-meaning, they're trying to validate
the person's experience and say, it's normal
there's nothing wrong with you.
But at the same time it's not helpful to the other person.
It's kind of like when someone comes to you with a problem
and you say, oh, "don't worry about it".
Nicky: Yeah, they're obviously
worried about it.
Laura: Yes, so, never in the history of
"don't worry" has that actually worked.
So, when someone says, I need help with this.
Yes, validate their experience.
Yes, I've been through this, this is completely normal.
But, it's really hard.
This is what you can do, this may be helpful.
And it is about doing the practical things
that help, what you need, giving the emotional support
as well and then getting the education.
So, I think if you've got those
kind of three things, it's really helpful.
Nicky: And I think for the rest of us,
it's letting people ask for help
that we need to be maybe a bit better at.
If we see someone, who is asking for help,
whether it's online or at a moms' group or something.
It's just listening to them and going
okay, whether or not I personally think
that that is normal, which I hate that word, but
I get that you don't feel that it is, so how can I let you
ask me for help and how can I help you best?
And it might be through giving them
some information or pointing them
to some websites or some people that they could talk to.
I think that's definitely something
we all need to be better at.
Laura: Yeah, and we need to be better at listening too.
I think we're all a victim of being
so caught up in the business
of our own lives that sometimes we don't
tune in to the cues that somebody else may be struggling.
Which is why I love that next month there's R U OK? Day
and there's Mental Health Awareness Week.
And people are getting a lot better
at asking other people, hey, are you okay?
I really hope that people are becoming
more comfortable with being vulnerable.
And that we're creating more spaces
for people to be vulnerable and that that's okay.
And there's so much power in being vulnerable
and getting the support that you need.
And I, I love when I see people come into
my clinic and they lay it all out on the table.
And I think it's so brave and it's so amazing.
And then we get to put the pieces all together.
And we really empower this person.
And we give them solutions and we help them
on their own journey and it's wonderful.
But they need to
kind of go through that process of asking for help,
being vulnerable and then letting us in.
Nicky: So, lastly in general, not just to do
with the things we talked about today.
What would your, maybe your number one tip
or piece of advice to new parents be, in general,
anything to do with babies?
Laura: Ask for help.
You can't do it on your own.
When you say that you've got a village,
or the saying that it takes a village, it's not wrong.
It is so true.
On my own journey I've thought about
all the times I've asked for help
and I think about single parents who are isolated.
And I just think, holy, how do you do that on your own?
It is so tough, it is really hard.
Ask for help, there's no shame in it.
People are happy to help,
you don't have to do it all on your own,
you're not on your own, you don't have to be.
Let other people help you.
Nicky: I agree, I think that's excellent
and very, very valid advice.
Laura: Yes, absolutely!
And look, everybody needs help.
I'm a mental health expert and I still needed help.
And I work with this cohort of clients all the time.
We just need help.
I mean you don't need it but it makes life a lot
easier if you get help.
And you don't need to torture yourself
if you can get help, so ask for it.
Nicky: I agree.
Well, thank you so much this has been very enlightening
and I think a lot of,
I hope a lot of people who are in the position,
maybe being first-time parents, or even actually
second and third-time or fourth or fifth-time parents,
'cause if we're talking specifically about
postnatal depression and those really strong feelings
that's not limited to first-time parents, is it?
I think a lot of people will have been able
to take a lot away from this conversation.
Laura: I hope so.
and I'll link all of the
relevant things in the in the comment box as well
so people know where they can start
looking if they need some extra help.
Laura: Yeah, there is so much help available.
So, to anyone out there who is struggling
please just go and seek some help.
Get help for yourself practically,
emotionally, socially whatever it is that you need.
You will thank yourself for it in the end
and bub will be a lot happier too.
Nicky: Thank you so much for this,
it's been awesome talking to you today.
Laura: You're so welcome.
Nicky: So, thank you Laura so much for joining us today.
I know I certainly got a lot
out of our conversation and I hope you all did too.
If you need some more help and support
with your little one's sleep, please check out our website.
If you need some help and support,
if you feel like you're not coping
or experiencing any of those symptoms
of postnatal depression or anxiety
that we talked about,
please look at Laura's website
and the relevant Facebook pages, which I will link below.
Thank you again for watching and we'll see you next time!