Well we've been making games for who over 30 years over 30
Yeah, that's showing all right, so yeah
We started back in the 80s originally sort of from 81 with a zx81 our brother bought it
And we just found under the TV instead of playing with it aged about 12 or 13
I guess yeah, I really got kind of it well
That was when computers all came with sort of keyboards and not great games
So you kind of end up like making them yourself whereas nowadays, it's all consoles stick a disc in and off you go
And you wouldn't know where to start
Where we have our real success was on this little tiny of rubber we keyboard its spectrum with a 40mm
There was a cheap 16 K. Yeah, but nobody out there
Okay, a Walking 48 and yeah, it was a case of trying to make games on this 8-bit computer
Is that limitation a good thing yeah, I actually like
Limitations in some ways it was a puzzle in how to get the biggest game or adventure working
On the very limited memory and the thing that I used to remember particularly was
They couldn't move many graphics around the screen so you literally had to say okay
I can move little sprites
Around the screen and I'm only gonna be out of cover like eight or so sprites on the screen
What game could I come up with which like well you?
Had to design the games around the technical ability of the computer
So you had to look at what it could do and how it would work
And how much memory and then design your game according to it
whereas as computer technologies got better you design your game first and the computer has to fit it and
How did you work together then on this you've got one computers two of you initially?
Initially we would just share a one single computer
And when one was actually using the computer typing in code the other one will be working out code on paper
to be perfect eyes
It's actually a really good thing because we used to plan things out really well because the computers were so slow and so
Basic with just text editors that it's actually really difficult to write the code, and it was all assembly language, so it was really really
codified
But because you couldn't have computer time because he had it you'd actually you'd sort of sit down plan it out
You'd you're scrappy little diagram diagrams if you remember that from your computer studies?
And you try work it all out, and you'd actually write it all down
And then when you've got the computer time you would just type in what you'd worked out on paper
We've got all of these like hand-drawn notes, but it was amazing that it really gets your thoughts in place
And how do you think we missed it as soon as we had money to buy two?
Computers we just summon a computer what text editor on its might a few lines press
Compiler doesn't work. It crashes and actually you didn't sit down and take stock and plan things
So would you debug it on the paper as welder there are many times? We had a really hard
I think the logic definitely and the overall structure
But maybe not debug, I don't know there were times where there's really really nasty bugs
And you'd literally just put in two out and you get a pen and you'd be following it rained and rained
And trying to work out why because the computers and those we?
Coded things like a spectrum on a TV with it RF aerial. Okay now
I was wearing glasses for years and years
and it was because of things like that right if you are so blurred if you actually go back and look at the display and
Think that we were sitting on first off lots of hours 15 16 17 hours a day looking at those well
Yeah, when we weren't working the planning we were in front of the TV not monitor TV. I mean
The signals just terrible, and it's amazing that we could even read the text
but you only have a few characters across because I have big chunky text because the
Resolution of graphics was 320 by 240 bit level from your 4k monitors may so initially started with a family TV
So there's NX 81 the dragon 32 they were family TV, but then the next computer
We bought was an Amstrad we didn't bring them on Saturday, but it came with its own monitor, but it's the air computer W
But it doesn't check anything away wait. You'll find this from our YouTube channel
We talk a lot about his loft so during the 80s and early 90s
It was just the two of us making games. We then set up a company
Initially called Interactive Studios that was because the consoles came along and we'd be a team yeah
You needed sort of for proper artists then yeah
Resolution graphics had gone up so we decided to set up a company Interactive Studios initially that was then renamed in
1990 blitz game studios that
company grew of doing lots of contracts with big publishers like your electric arts and
THQ and his knees were only
Microsoft all the big publishers
And that company grew to over 235 people and that went on through until
2013 when
unfortunately times changing digital downloads free-to-play models and everything all changed and 40 blade stop trading
So we set up another company and that's called radiant worlds, and we're developing a game. It's a massively multiplayer online game
Chance of changing all of that they're great things to learn online
I think every student should have a play with these things that Andrew decided to learn scratch and write a full game
In an evening. Yeah, cuz his son totally couldn't write make a decent game
Well my son had been asked to watch, but it was about I don't know heaven or 12 or something at school
And they'd come home and their homework was write a little game on scratch
And it was supposed to like Paul or something and he was busy doing it, and he was doing okay ish
But he made some coin about like well. You could never are at a proper game, and I was looking at it going
That's yeah
I think you could I would try to think of the things that you couldn't do because these things were pretty flippin basic
What they didn't do much, but we wrote some big games on them
So I looked at this scratch and divided by itself. It was revised incredibly powerful, and it was just the case of
Seeing what and how it would work, and I was looking at it and thinking well
It wouldn't do 3d graphics clearly, but you can motor 2d
Yeah, you could do anything to D in any of the 8-bit games
And I saw us had any 8-bit game like what a lot of pac-man. There's like yeah, you could write pac-man easily
And after we went bad. I decided to write pac-man on scratch ok by breakfast time. I was ready. Yeah, it's got
I think it was something like 400,000 years today
It's at a few years possibly inspired. Well. No actually just completely copied
The competition is vast I mean anybody in the world can basically write a game
And it's very easy
But on the other hand there is a massive massive
Audience and lots of really good tools and lots of really good information about how to write a game
So it's different equation, but the opportunity is still there just ask me like knotch
So, but what you must do is actually do something original and creative if you wanted to get noticed so you will be very able
Very easily able to make a game
And if you're interested in games you absolutely should just get on and make it don't talk about
When I make a game, and I want to make a game just get on a make a game
the question is then getting it promoted and seen by lots of people and that's actually tough these days because
There are so many games out there on all the digital stores. I actually see a bigger danger
When we got into programming these things it was partly because there were only two TV channels
Rubbish music on audio cassettes although we could listen to it, but we never have right
we didn't really read books as such and I don't know we weren't really really bored and
So tinkering on a computer was what we like to do kids can't get bored now
They just physically can pretty much every kid. I know has a computer a smartphone a console access to Netflix
YouTube Optifine which is brilliant, but if you just spend your time being entertained and you're just a consumer
Somebody's got to sit down and go I want to be brilliant at music. I want to be brilliant to art or whatever and spend
hours and hours that it takes to learn so we just dedicated our time to do this stuff partly through boredom and
That is not really an option anymore kids don't get bored
So I actually think that's sort of made you put a taken
Major hurdle yeah absolutely, and you know the one prop
We don't have as a copy of the book if somebody can hand us a copy the book
We are expecting more guests than this
This does sound terribly like an answer
But I have to point out that we don't actually take any money from this in fact the contribution of the publisher Chris Wilkins
Would have give it to us
Is that being donated to special effects which do all the work with disabled kids who want to play video games?
Yeah, they do some brilliant stuff
I mean the things that I did with eye
Tracking those up some games that I like talking about it even felt like Stephen Hawking could play video games because they've got it
So that you can just sort of like control computer with your eyes, which is very cool, but they built into games
Like yes, you can probably build into text messaging as well
Could that be useful
But now I was playing a kart racing game with my lights, which is very cool
So they do some really good work
So we've given our money to them just really nice to solve be able to solve record so much stuff in the book that
Just lives in my life. I mean this is just at one example green world pokey on the NES
So yeah, it's just a box finally mile off. I'm just
Covered going and it must go through
There's just
Well, that's the original sort of
city diagram
some letters back and forwards code
There's this is the source code that we have to recompile from
At one point we were going to be calling it blitz which is kind of funny that we came back to that Lane really called
Our company blitz in the end, and then just kind of working out some sort of notes of how we layout characters and memory
Basically it was all the disks and paperwork. They were across the desk halfway through
You'd like where do I clear this to?
Get another bottle
Clear it into the box file and then as the game sort of finishes
You just clear the desk and just clear it all into the box file
Whatever is still on the table that didn't go in the bin?
So unfortunately
The same thing a block, but the story the story's a little bit more a bit longer a bit more complicated
But it was developed for the NES Codemasters
were running into various issues with Nintendo and publishing games on the NES and
Unfortunately this one was decided not to be released by them which was a great shame, but there's a little bit of longer story
It is but the stories in here
Of course that green we had 46 games and half of them were number one bestsellers
I mean just lay the
statistic like that the book has got so much content in its gonna be quite difficult for people in the future to interview us and
Say, can you tell me something new that isn't in the book?