- Oh, you're moving.
[Carey laughs]
You're moving around.
- Oh, how did you?
[Carey laughs]
- How did that happen?
- Hi.
- You actually had your eyes closed?
- I really did.
Did you not?
- No.
- Oh, no.
[gentle music]
- Do you remember the first time we met?
- I remember seeing "The Seagull".
- [Carey] Yeah.
- On Broadway,
probably in a preview.
I remember thinking that you were very good.
That the young woman who played Nina was very good.
But I had heard Zoe talk about you already.
- Yeah.
I just have a really clear picture of us
in a restaurant afterwards,
and we were waiting to go to a table,
and you and Zoe were standing next to each other,
and you were so sweet.
I mean, you as a couple. - Yeah.
- You obviously are singularly very sweet,
but, the two of you were so sweet,
and I was like, "Aww."
- You guys became close pretty quick?
- Yeah.
'Cause we were sharing like a dressing room, like--
- Yeah.
- This big,
as big as to the end of your chair.
For a long time Zoe and I would hang a lot,
and then you would be, you know,
it was not like the three of us hang.
Like, even my wedding Zoe was there all week
and you came for the weekend.
And I think for a while I was so intimidated
by you as an actor,
you know, from "There Will Be Blood".
And I was like, "Who is this person?"
- And as long as I have teeth, I will bite you.
And if I have no teeth, I will gum you.
And as long as I have fists, I will bash you.
Now, get out of here ghost.
Get out.
- It's ridiculous performance.
Like, it's so otherworldly and incredible.
And so, I think for a while I was like,
"Oh, he's a proper one".
And then after a while I was like,
"Oh, he's so goofy".
- Yeah.
- [Carey] Such a goof. - Yeah.
- And I think you are perceived as like a serious actor.
- Yeah.
But I'm just like a silly person.
- You're just like a very silly person.
- So I have a question,
I don't know if you're gonna like.
- Oh, no.
- We started with The Seagull...
- Yeah. - Where I met you.
How has your approach and process of preparation
and relationship to your work changed?
'Cause it's been quite some time now
that we've known each other.
- "The Seagull" was the first time I sort of had a plan.
Before that, cause I know--
You started much younger than me but...
I was 18,
but the first job I went on was "Pride and Prejudice"
and it was like a group of young people under the age of 25.
And we all just sort of ran around country estates,
and I thought filmmaking was just party.
- That sounds good.
- And staying in nice hotels.
It was so great, catering.
And then I went straight from that
to a play at the Royal Court Theater
where I played this sort of narcoleptic 14 year old
who's sexually assaulted,
and it was a real crash down to earth.
But I still was sort of winging it.
And I remember them all warming up on stage,
and they'd all been to RADA,
and they were all trained,
I mean the whole cast was filled
with these incredible theater actors,
and I had never done a play.
I mean I've done school plays, but.
And I wouldn't come out of my dressing room to warm up.
And I remember Katie Mitchell, the director,
coming and taking me by the hand
and sort of dragging me down to warm up.
So for years I was like, "I'm not really an actor".
I'm like, you know, "I don't really know what I'm be doing".
My family aren't in this world.
It always felt a bit sort of silly.
As I've gotten older and less sort of insecure,
I've been like, "No, it's a job".
- That's so funny.
I would not have known that,
because, well, for me,
"The Seagull" is quite a serious piece of work.
- Yeah.
- And I think a lot of your work is.
- Yeah.
- It's not that I'm not, but I just sort of--
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's funny.
- Yeah.
- I think,
'cause were so incredible as a director on "Wildlife"
and I feel like
I felt some of the freest I've ever been in film.
I always felt that freedom on stage.
And then I was always like
when I get in front of a camera
I kind of tense up.
And I feel like you were the first film director
where I just sort of went like,
I don't have, you know,
I don't have to like, freeze up every time.
Like, you created this environment where we could just
sort of, it felt like theater in a way, a little bit.
- That was my first time trying to write,
but at the that I probably started writing it,
you would've been way too young.
Luckily because of acting
it just took like many years to write this script.
- When did you start writing it then?
- I started writing it in the hotel room
when we were shooting "Prisoners" actually,
hanging out with Jake.
So probably at least four years before we made it.
You must have been the first person we asked.
I remember calling you,
I think I called you. - You called me.
- Did I call you? - Yeah.
- I was really nervous.
I think it's too much to ask for favors
in the acting department, frankly.
It's like a lot of work.
I just remember really feeling like,
"Ah, I hope Carey doesn't feel that way".
It's like, "I really hope Carey does this,
cause I really wanna see her unravel as Jeanette,
I think that would be exciting for her".
- You don't have to do this, I'm working now.
- But it won't be for long.
- Not if you get yourself killed.
- It's gonna snow.
The fire's gonna go, and they'll send everyone home.
What if it never snows at all?
- Joe, what do you think?
Is this a bad idea?
- Don't ask him, he'll approve of everything you do.
- He's almost grown, he should have a say
what happens in this family.
- How will you like it if your father gets burned up
and you never see him again?
Then you and I can go straight to hell together.
- Don't say that, Jean. - You can't keep running
every time something doesn't go your way.
- And you were so incredible.
And I owe you forever.
- I owe you forever.
I really do, really honestly.
I remember literally being like,
"Oh my god, Paul thinks I can act".
And I obviously wanted to do it
from the second I read it.
It was so incredible.
And then I was like, "But she has a 14 year old, aren't I,
I mean, I feel like maybe I'm a bit young".
And Zoe was like, "You're not".
- No, that's true, you were young.
But the time period. - [Carey] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- It worked if she was like 19.
- Yeah, yeah.
No, no, it totally worked.
But it was the first time that I,
I played mothers before of smaller children,
but this was the first time
I was being sort of a mother of a teenager.
- Definitely different.
Me too with "The Fabelmans".
It was like when I picked up Gabriel LaBelle
to hang out with him for the first time,
I was sitting in the car,
and I looked over and he had more facial hair than I do.
- Well, you were so used to being the youngest on set.
- Yes.
I actually think it's a really important transition
in life and in your art
to grow into yourself as an adult and not stay that.
- Feeling that way.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now wait a minute,
if you didn't go to drama school,
you were 18,
how did you get,
what happened after high school?
- I tried to get into drama school,
and I didn't get in anywhere.
In England you have,
I dunno if it's still the same, probably is,
six places you can apply to,
and then you are done for the year.
And I used them all on drama schools
and not on any university.
And I didn't get into any of them.
And I did it all without telling my parents
'cause I was convinced that I would get in
and then I'd be able to say,
"Hooray, look, I got into RADA",
and I didn't.
So I had to say "I didn't get,
now I'm gonna have to live at home for a bit".
My parents were gonna sort of insist
that I go to university at that point
'cause I really had sort of fucked it all up.
So then I was in my gap year,
I was working in a pub,
two pubs,
and I was a runner at a film studio during the day,
and I just started writing letters,
and I had met Julian Fellowes who wrote "Gosford Park".
Clearly like 19 people had written him similar letters,
writers, and directors, and actors who were all my age.
So he and his wife took all of us out for one dinner
to sort of give like collective advice.
- [Paul] That's sweet.
- And so in that, I started going to this workshop in London
where I acted with a boy for the first time.
I'd gone to an all girls boarding school,
and I'd played most of the men.
I played John Proctor, my best role.
And then also at the same time,
they said they're doing this big open casting search
for "Pride & Prejudice".
So I auditioned for that,
and that was my first job.
- Wow. - Yeah.
- That's fantastic.
I didn't know that.
- Yeah.
- So I was kind of almost the opposite,
which is I started acting young.
- How young?
- I think I did my first Broadway play
when I was like 10 maybe, 10 or 11.
- Wow.
- With George C. Scott, Charles Durning.
It was called "Inherit the Wind".
I did some musicals.
- Did you?
- [Paul] Yeah.
- Of course you can sing.
- I can sing a little bit.
I think singing is one of the things
that got me to acting, probably, as a kid I mean.
And then I did my first film when I was 16,
Called "L.I.E".
But then I did the opposite,
which is I really wanted to go to college,
'cause I think having been a child actor
I had a very like stiff arm up to going too fast.
And then I had a very silly moment
where I was at my desk doing a homework, and I was like,
"I think I have to try to be an actor".
You know, that's it.
I had to like re...
I still every, I would say three to five years,
I have to recommit myself.
- Yeah.
But then what would you do if you...
Well, in those brief moments,
what do you think the alternative is?
- Oh, you know,
like the thing that's never gonna happen,
which I'm really not cut out for,
which is like, "Oh, I'll go live on a farm".
[laughs]
- Yeah.
No, no, cause I want to,
well I would like to spend more time writing.
I really want to make another film.
- Yeah.
- Now that we have kids,
I feel like my priorities just keep becoming clearer.
- Yeah.
- What about you?
- I think so.
I think it also changes as they get older.
It's different now to when they're tiny.
It's just, you know, they are sort of portable beings,
and now mine are getting a bit older.
They're a bit, you know, I'm a bit more,
I think it will become clearer what is
and isn't possible for us.
But I think in terms of the work,
I feel a lot more relaxed.
We're both so lucky that at the moment
we get to do jobs because we want to do them
not because we have to.
And that's such a luxury in life and in the world.
I think it's sort of very obvious
when it's the right time to do something and not,
whereas I think I probably debated more in the past.
- Is it, is it easy for you?
- [Carey] Yeah. - Yeah.
- I feel very cut and dry.
- Yeah.
Zoe is too.
She's clear.
- Yeah.
- Damn.
I need a little bit of that.
- [Carey] Yeah.
- I'm gonna take a little from you.
I mean it's funny,
I actually feel like now as an actor
I'm becoming more interested in like, escape.
I think the Batman kind of opened it too.
Like, I want, gimme some genre.
Like, what's that?
Like, let me learn.
I don't know what's next.
- Yeah.
I feel like when people say, you know,
what's your dream part or what do you want to do next?
I'm always like,
"Well, I don't want to die or cry or be depressed".
So I feel like I've got that covered in lots of my work.
Like, you know the things that you're cool.
- I think that's true.
- And now I wanna try and...
That's why I am, you know,
like drawn to "Promising Young Woman"
or, you know, something you go like,
"Ooh, that's a color I haven't try".
In "Wildlife" too.
I mean at that point that was like such a...
- I think knowing what I don't want is easier,
than what I want. - Yeah.
- And I like to be surprised. - Yeah.
- After "Promising Young Woman",
maybe something that continues,
that film is quite heavy in one way,
but I think like something maybe loose and a little funny.
- I really want to.
- [Paul] I think that could be fun.
- Really all I want to do
is sort of a Richard Curtis romantic comedy.
And he's not directing anymore.
But that's my--
- I would like to see you in some scene
where you're like drunk
and not supposed to be. - Yeah.
- Something a little sloppy maybe.
- It's also, yeah, you know,
you get to do slightly less heavy press
when you're doing it.
[Paul laughs]
- I always see people doing like press for Marvel movies.
We have to talk about quite serious things.
- You did really good on SNL too.
- I'd like to see you host SNL.
- I'd be so scared.
I'd be so nervous. - You would be so good.
- I'd be so nervous.
Oh, I would like to do something that involves sports.
- Oh, sports, yeah.
- If I could like be in a basketball gym
every day for a few months. - [Carey] Yeah.
- That would be fun. - Yeah.
- Part of our, what we get to learn is great.
So anything to do with like music is always really fun,
'cause it's like I get to learn,
you know, how to play piano.
- Oh, I think when anyone's paying you
to become good at something. - Yeah, it's so great.
- And making you, you know, driving you there.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That would be such a great excuse
to just be a kid and throw baseball or whatever.
Where did you start with "She Said", and with Megan?
How much of it was in the writing
verse meeting her, verse you,
and where you meet all of that?
- The script gave us so many indications
of what kind of film it wanted to be,
and that, you know, Rebecca had made
all these really concrete decisions
that were part of the screenplay,
which was, you know, you never see Weinstein's face.
You never see depictions of violence against women.
The survivors tell the story for themselves.
There's not a lot of what's sort of told about.
It's like, you hear their voices explain.
- Which I think were really beautiful choices
by that writer, Rebecca.
It's really elegant.
- And the postnatal depression
which is sort of where she comes into this story from,
was something that I had with my daughter.
So we talked a lot about that.
The reason I wanted to do Jeanette
was 'cause I read it and I was like,
"Ah, I don't know who she is,
and she doesn't make any sense".
And it was similar with Megan.
I just kept on reading those scenes
where they rang people up and knocked on people's doors,
and thought,
"In a million years I couldn't ring someone up
and say, I know this awful thing happened to you".
Oh, I wouldn't sleep.
I'd be, you know-
So I thought, "What makes someone?",
"What's the chemistry in someone's brain?".
Like, what's your makeup that you can do that?
And it comes down to vocation, I think.
It's like, this is what she feels called to do.
It's like, I am here to unearth mistruths,
and sort of put injustice on the table,
and allow society to make a decision
about how they're gonna deal with it.
I was massively intimidated to play Megan Twohey.
But I can't imagine,
I mean, first of all, Steven Spielberg,
to be asked to play his father,
must have been the most enormous compliment.
But secondly, completely terrifying.
- Yeah, I got a text.
- Yeah, a text from?
- That Steven wanted to meet.
I was like, "Okay".
- I thought you meant a text from Steven Spielberg.
- No, no, no.
- Presumably you do now text with Steven Spielberg.
- Yeah.
It took a while.
But yeah, the third Zoom,
he turned on the Zoom,
he had cigar, which he doesn't light it,
but it was in his mouth.
- He doesn't light it?
It's just there? - [Paul] No, it's just there.
- It's like a thinking thing?
- "I think you'll make my dad proud".
So it was like, the Zoom to say "I want you to do this".
And I was like, "Oh my God".
- And his father had not long passed away, right?
- Yeah.
It's a story he wanted to tell for a long time,
but I think it came out
rather quickly after Arnold's passing,
which was during the pandemic.
I did feel it was kind of a heavy cloak to bear,
because his relationship with his father,
it was not bad, but it was tension.
I think when his parents split,
often one parent gets, you know,
more of the blame.
For him it went towards his father.
I remember feeling like,
"Okay, Paul wants to give Steven a hug".
- Mm. - I see his eyes right now.
You know, I wanna be there for him.
But I think Burt doesn't quite always know how to do that.
- Yeah.
- And I remember this push and pull the first few days.
- Yeah.
I remember when we did "Wildlife" as well.
Like, I knew that Zoe was back in New York doing her play
and watching dailies.
I was resisting the urge about the first four days
to text her and be like,
"And do you like them?"
That first bit we were like,
"Am I landing in the zone that you want me to be in?"
- [Paul] Yeah. - It's a lot.
All the best.
- Hey.
- Be well.
- Lovely to meet you. - Take care.
- Yeah. - See you in seven minutes.
- [Paul] Should we exit with our eyes closed?
[Carey laughs]