- Charles, thanks so much for being here.
What I'd like to talk about
is transformative leadership, HR transformative leadership,
and I know you have a strong opinion on that.
- Yes.
- When you talk about transformative leaders
in HR, what should a transformative leader look like?
- I moved to HR 10 years ago.
When I move to HR, I asked my team,
I had no clue about HR, so what would make you proud
of working for the functions,
can you describe me what it is, if you understand
what makes people proud, it's very easy
to move them to the next level.
Okay 'cause,
and the answer I got was, we want,
our dream will be to have seat at the table,
And I said sorry, can you explain,
what is this table about?
They said, well we are talking about the people table.
So I look at, and said, so you want
to sit at your own table,
that's what you're saying here.
So let me make sure that understand what you say,
so it's like, we will invite you home,
I will cook for you, I will go shopping,
I will cook for you, I will sit you all around the table
in my house, and I will ask you the question,
by the way, can I sit to my table?
Okay, so what I'm trying to say,
we have to move from having a seat at a table
to owning the table.
I'm not in the business of having a seat at any table.
I'm in the business of owning the people agenda.
And deciding who I want to sit around the table.
So, what I'm trying to say Eric is,
it's all about the mindsets.
It's not about, you know we can talk about videos,
we can talk about inspiration,
you know, leadership at, in HR is not very different
that what you need in other functions,
but I think what's need to change in HR,
if we want to play the role that we need to play,
and it's a need, the world is changing, okay.
The workforce is changing, aspiration are changing,
expectation are changing.
So the world of HR in shaping this new world
is absolutely critical.
But we'll only get there if we clear understand
this is our table,
and we lead the conversation at that table.
- So I'm curious to know 'cause you probably have colleagues
or people working at other companies,
that have you know, of pure backgrounds in HR.
- Yeah.
- what do you think is the most,
the biggest difference between you coming
from a commercial background and someone who has been
in HR for a long time,
- Look it, - When you talk
about leadership?
- First there's no one good way
of being an HR professional, okay.
You can absolutely study HR all your life
and be a great HR professional.
You can come from line, be a great HR professional.
So, I just want us to make sure
that there's no perfect solution.
If you come from line, you will be good HR,
if you don't come from line you'll be a bad HR.
Okay, 'cause, as I say, it's all about the mindset you have
into that one.
I think, having said that, and being a true believer
in diversity, I think you need a combination
of both.
I think what I bring to the table is empathy
with the business 'cause I've been doing those jobs.
I've been in marketing, I've been in sales,
I've been in finance.
So it's easier for me to understand what that means
for people being in those functions.
Okay so let me give you an example.
When you deal with someone of corporate affairs,
which is very important for a company,
and this person is facing a massive crisis
in term of tax increase and all of that.
The fact that I went through that myself,
I can understand exactly what the person is facing
in term of emotions, in term of needs,
in term of stress, so it's easy for me
to have a conversation with that person, okay.
It's just about empathy.
Now, I can discuss with that person,
but if I don't have the tools and the solution
to provide to that person, you know
that to deal with the situation you once worked.
So, that's why it's a combination
of very strong HR professional who have the tools,
the skills, the knowledge.
And my expertise from the business,
and when you combine them both together,
both together, not only one,
then you can have a very strong HR functions.
- Yeah, so you're saying on the one hand,
empathy and really understanding the business,
- Yeah.
- So understanding what the business is about,
- Yes.
- And on the other hand, having the HR skillset
that you need in order to deliver
- Absolutely, - Superior HR support,
- Absolutely, - To create
the business values. - Absolutely,
when I was appointed
to HR for the first time, my first decision was
to hire a head of,
of effectiveness,
'cause I knew that have no knowledge about
the functions, okay, and HR is not,
it's not,
it's not common sense, okay,
so you have too many people that believe,
including online, CEO's, and leaders that believe
that HR is common sense.
I'm sorry, this is a function, same as finance,
same as marketing, same as sales,
and there's some technincal knowledge you need to have.
And when you don't have this knowledge,
which was my case, and I'm not saying I have it right now,
but after ten years, I've probably better understanding.
You need to surround yourself with deep expert
that can really advise you on how to do stuff.
Okay, and that that, I think this is
this combination we are looking for.
- [Eric] Yeah so that the HR transformative leader
of the future has on the one hand empathy,
understands the business, understands what's going on.
On the other hands, has the skills or at least the network,
knows how to deliver HR in a superior way,
and then can connect that to business values.
- Yes, - Is what you're saying.
- And what I would say as well is,
oh in addition to what we discuss is,
when I say understanding the business,
it's not on the, being superficial about it, okay.
I can see sometimes some of, some people in HR saying
well you know they can give you the number of shelf market,
the number of volume, the retail investment.
This is not what I mean by that.
Everybody can understand that.
I mean you know, you take a financial report,
you read them, you repeat them, you have it.
This is really putting yourself in the shoes
of the person facing consumer customer's.
Okay, and how do you, how you put yourself
in her or his shoes to really understand what
that person is facing,
what type of support that person will need.
I think this is what is absolutely critical
when we say business understanding.
- Yeah. - Okay,
this is much more than the numbers.
- No that's interesting, and I think a lot
of HR professionals are already struggling
with the basic numbers, let alone getting
that really deep understanding - Yeah,
- That you're talking about, so.
- I wouldn't be that negative about it, you know.
- I'm not saying all, (laughing)
I'm not saying all, some of them.
I think it's a very interesting perspective, Charles.
Thank you. - Thank you very much.
- Thank you very much.
- Thank you.