Hi, welcome back to the show.
Americans are becoming less religious these days
so I sent Mike Rubens to find out what that means
for the soul of our country.
PRESENTER: Americans have long been far more religious
than citizens in other wealthy nations,
but a seismic societal shift is underway.
A recent survey shows participation
in organized religion here has plummeted precipitously.
So is this a bad thing or is this good for American
democracy?
That's not good for American democracy.
PRESENTER: Oh crap.
More from that expert soon.
But first, to find out from regular folks
if we are losing our religion, I went
to the Holy Land, Vegas, baby.
(SINGING) Oh they tell me of a home, beyond the sky.
PRESENTER: Yes, Vegas, a city fueled by faith, faith
that it will land on red, faith that the marriage will last,
faith that pants are overrated, faith in--
[CHEERING]
So, have the folks in faith town forgotten God?
God, your thoughts.
Who?
PRESENTER: Rock Roe, actually it's
more complicated than that.
God?
I believe in God.
God is good.
Like I have a bad person in my house and I pray
and he was gone.
He kicked him out or he died?
PRESENTER: Like this woman who may have killed someone
through prayer, many Americans still say they believe in God,
but they no longer believe in--
I don't believe in church.
Are you someone who goes to church a lot or--
No
I don't like organized religion.
A lot of organized religion is money based.
The rules like you can't have piercings,
you can't wear makeup.
I don't consider myself religious.
What are you doing here tonight?
We are trying to share the truth about the gospel
of Jesus Christ.
But you don't consider yourself religious.
No.
PRESENTER: What does it mean if even the religious guy
doesn't like religion.
Liberace, it's time for that expert from the beginning.
You got it.
[INSTRUMENT PLAYING]
So the thing is, we know that people
are not casting off belief as much as they're
casting off belonging.
PRESENTER: Ryan Berg is a social scientist and a pastor.
We met at a Casino located way off the main strip,
in a vast metaphor, to talk about his book, "The Nones".
People who are religiously unaffiliated and I define those
as people who say they're atheist, agnostic,
or nothing in particular.
There are as many nones as there are Catholics,
there are many nones as there are evangelicals.
So the nones now are equal to the biggest religious groups
that are in America?
That's exactly right.
PRESENTER: And like everything in America, from where we live,
to what we eat, to what assholes we watch on TV,
religious participation is polarized.
There's definitely been this sorting mechanism that's
happened where if I'm a liberal politically,
I'm much less likely to be religious
and much more likely to be a none
than if I'm a conservative.
Because the Republican Party today
is basically created a fusion of Christianity,
why Christianity, especially in the GOP.
We've sorted ourselves into these groups,
but is it possible that we've done so because some
of those groups are just filled with awful people
and I'm not going to say which group that is?
The problem is though, from a social science perspective,
the rise of the unaffiliated is actually really
troubling for several reasons.
I worry about a society where we don't have churches doing close
closets and food pantries.
When that social safety net the churches have built goes away,
who fills that up?
What if society and the economy
were set up in such a way that the church wasn't so
necessary for charity, and for food banks, and clothes,
and everything like that.
I think the atheist agnostic would
love that perspective and the evangelicals would hate it.
PRESENTER: The bigger issue, says Ryan,
is that we've lost a moderating melting pot.
We know that churches used to be places where people who are
Republicans and Democrats sat side by side and worship
together every Sunday, their kids went to Sunday school
together.
It built bridges is what we would call.
We don't see that anymore.
PRESENTER: So without this mixing and bridge building,
what are we seeing?
We're seeing, you know, democracy has been shredded
over the last few years because a big portion of this country
thinks the 2020 election was illegitimate.
People live in these echo chambers
where they're reinforced in their crazy beliefs,
they're not checked.
I mean if we were building bridges
with each other people would go, "You know,
really that's not OK".
PRESENTER: Yeah, really.
This is not OK.
But you can't blame the nones for not wanting to go to church
to tell people their ideas are crazy
and maybe that's one reason nones are growing in number.
The older generations, which are overwhelmingly Christian
are dying off.
So there's a future where there are
more nones than any other religious group in America
today.
PRESENTER: For now, there's just one
none in Congress, the most irritating
Senator who's not Ted Cruz.
But maybe that will change and considering the power
that religious conservatives have long held,
I think it's a good thing, this nonification.
Is that a word?
PRESENTER: It is now.
But I do feel for those like Ryan.
There's no place for someone like me.
The kind of church that I pastor is dying, thousands of them
are dying across America every day.
PRESENTER: Back on the strip after many interviews,
I finally found some regular churchgoers, Dolly and Damon.
And how often do you go?
We go every other Sunday.
OK, pretend there's no cameras here, how often you go,
let's be honest. - Same thing.
Really?
Do you think that people who don't go to church
are going to go to hell?
No.
All right.
PRESENTER: So how would these non-judgy but devout people
draw folks back to the church?
Look, I use myself as an example.
I'm a Christian, I believe in Jesus,
but I still smoke my weed, I drink my liquor,
and I have fun.
Do you think that it would be better if a church had
outside, "Come here, you can still
smoke weed and drink liquor"
Man, listen, church will be packed every day.
PRESENTER: Problem solved.
Join us this Sunday BYOB and W.
Play us out Liberace.
[INSTRUMENT PLAYING]
PRESENTER: For Ryan, the loss of religion
is a threat to society itself.
I mean, without religion what do
we have that holds us together?
PRESENTER: But, what I learned in Vegas, is we have us.
Nones or non nones, we can hold each other together
and lift each other up.
God or not, I think we can lead each other out
of our current wasteland.
Did you bring any water?
No.
[INSTRUMENT PLAYING]
[HUMMING]
We'll be right back.