today we connect with health and media experts in New York from conspiracy
theories about the origin of covert 19 to junk science like eating garlic and
using bleach to cure the virus fake news and disinformation have been spreading
as fast as the virus itself across social media at the Internet and even on
mainstream media this has really not been helpful in society's handling that
they'd be pandemic only promoting greater fear and mistrust questionable
health advice xenophobia and even the hoarding of toilet paper to discuss how
we can combat this so-called info Demick we connect with Bruce Wiley doctor of
medicine and medical journalist and Jeremy Kaplan editor-in-chief of Digital
Trends both joining us from New York well let's start with the most
outlandish fake news or disinformation that you've heard regarding the covert
19 I'd like to hear from both of you why don't we start with doctor Lee well
that's that's hard to choose because there's so many possibilities that are
out there so I can name name a few so one is that this virus is somehow
engineered or design or manufactured as a bioweapon in a lab and for some reason
released deliberately and it's not clear why someone would do that but you know
the sign if evidence is is getting clearer and clearer that this came from
a natural source there's a there's a very close correlation between the
genetic sequences of the sequences of the virus and the virus is found in bats
so that's one River conspiracy theory that's that's out there and then there's
all this bogus therapies that are being suggested that you know you can try
different types of supplements or different types of herbal medications or
even like hydrogen peroxide or regular oil so lots of stuff like that the
bleach theory was quite scary for me well what about you mr. Kaplan yeah the
misinformation around health is particularly nefarious potentially
leading people to try the wrong thing course but potential health impacts on
themselves I find also scary just the general misinformation around what's
happening in society so there was a huge rumor that spread across the city across
the country that Trump was going to close down the borders and put a general
lockdown on the US this was spreading by a text message over the weekend it got
so bad in fact that the US government had to issue an official response on
Twitter saying no we have no immediate plans to do that but not before millions
of people at exchange these messages that just creates this general sense of
fear and concern which we should have of course but exacerbating it through false
information it's really just nefarious the the other thing that struck me is
particularly gross what was false information around a vaccine I saw a
number of reports that the Chinese government has a vaccine not not true
I'm sure the doctor leaked and corroborated not true at all
but the fact that people would start thinking about that and writing about it
the implication that one government is holding it hostage and not providing it
to others creates just this broader sense of uncertainty which is just not
useful in this environment exactly even if it's something as silly as eating
garlic it doesn't really amount to anything
helpful at all and at this point and in this situation well doctor Lee as a
journalist and a doctor of medicine how does it really how does it make you feel
to read all these bizarre bits of information floating around the web and
especially when they come from the media accounts or the mouths of celebrities or
public figures yeah these things have real impact
so we it's easy to forget that all information that goes out there is
actually affecting people so ranging from people may do certain things and
neglect to do other things like for instance oh so this is things important
but if they feel that there's some other magical cure they could drink or rub on
themselves or what-have-you they may be doing that instead or they may it may
raise the level of panic or suspicion or mistrust which is especially a problem
when like everyone needs to cooperate so everyone needs to cooperate and social
distance and flattened occur but you have these situations like for
instance to continue the pointment the vaccine I've seen Rubin cloning out
there that this pandemic was started because someone wanted to sell vaccine
so that's that's another hoax that's out there that they already have vaccines
and let's either start start a pandemic as a hoax or actually start a pandemic
to sexually sell the vaccine which makes absolutely no sense
you know we're far from having a vaccine out there you know people are talking
about there's certainly not gonna be a vaccine within the within the year and
and and and beyond so if you look at the science it doesn't make sense but this
really creates this very confusing mess that then makes difficult to actually
push out the real facts so the real facts get lost in this tornado of other
information that's out there right all this fake news or disinformation it
really does come in various forms whether they're you know just tweets
from celebrities or online articles and we even see them floating around in
traditional media as well Oh mr. Caplan as a figure in media does it worry you
just how advanced and widely dispersed that fake news or dis invasion has
become and how it's been so prevalent throughout this entire crisis as well
yeah it really does bother me to piggyback on what dr. Lee said it
obfuscates the actual information and at a time like this when it's important for
actual facts from actual doctors and the actual government to get out there it
just it hurts that people would intentionally or maliciously or even
unintentionally spread this type of information the other thing I wanted to
point out is I think we're all fairly aware at this point that certain
platforms notably Facebook and Twitter I've had this pervasive issue about fake
news what we've been seeing lately is the rise and spread of fake news on
other platforms as well I mentioned the cell phone thing for example you saw a
huge spread on whatsapp of fake information and it's just and even on
tik-tok now there's been the spread of false information again perhaps
intentional perhaps but regardless it gets in the way of the
real information which we really need to be sharing and getting out there and
being editor-in-chief when you see some journalists just using you know fake
information just create headlines or perhaps they're not aware that it's
really fake information and what do you think should be done do you think this
is all just lazy journalism basically but that's a very difficult question I
mean there there was a period in time when there was a rush to get online and
to get information out as quickly as possible
and yeah you definitely saw people that were you saw something you rushed to
write it whether or not you can verify the information we certainly put in some
stringent some rules in place at Digital Trends to ensure that we
don't do that go directly to the source talk to somebody else see if you can
corroborate through an official that you trust but it is very frustrating to see
somebody scrambling to get news out quickly and not necessarily be getting
out something accurate or even factual why this this it's not necessarily the
case of you know the faster the better we really have to take time and make
sure that everything is correct I mean that is very important
well dr. Lee I must admit some fake news content can give us a good laugh when
it's very obviously fake but when and when it affects your health or safety
then really it's no laughing matter and I'd say that goes for any news that goes
on chote for instance Frances health ministry
very recently having suggested that painkillers such as ibuprofen could
worsen the effects of the corona virus many experts have criticized that this
hasn't been verified well what are your thoughts on this and what kinds of
medical disinflation should we be rather wary of it we're in a difficult
situation because on the one hand scientists would like to get out
information as quickly as possible because there needs to be at this course
so you know the trouble with this situation is this is a novel virus so
there aren't established treatments there aren't established ways to handle
the virus so many scientists are trying to get out the information as quickly as
possible so that's important but then we've seen situations where
something will be posted like there are these platforms where you can post
reprints before actually publishing a paper and having go through a peer
review but then they can be used in many different ways so we have to strike the
balance between sharing information but then having people misinterpret very
quickly so the question with the ibuprofen it's very early you know it's
it's based on some initial information and it really needs to be vetted by
other scientists and the scientific community to determine whether this is
something to be of concern particularly tough I would I would add because it's
hard for consumers for ordinary people to digest some of the medical knowledge
the information that you can probably get to much more easily so when you see
a paper it's very hard to know if you can actually trust that and that's I
think that's one reason that people are more likely to be susceptible to the
fake news that gets spread around oh this fixes that problem great I like
that that's an easy solution absolutely as a reporter myself I find it
incredibly difficult to write about medical issues and health issues and
even when it comes to you know the names of medicine and drugs and things like
that so there's question goes to both of you really what do you think should be
done to help mainstream media journalists as well be just as quick
that's it responding to these stories but also getting off facts straight at
the same time well one issue is when you do see a study is that the only study
that shows something or is is it part of a series of studies or have other
studies confirmed what that studies shows so even when people are trying to
do very legitimate and careful science you can't have a finding that just
happens to happen and can't be reproducible so I think the first thing
is you ask have we seen this before you know have other scientists or other
experiments demonstrating the same thing it's just consistent with what we've
seen in the past also you know the question is does this make sense from
biological standpoint so a lot of the states that we're seeing are very quick
correlations and the trouble is you'll see studies of you know small groups of
people and they say okay we found this correlated with this we have to remember
that correlation or Association does not mean causation so just because two
things appear together it doesn't mean that you know they actually have a
cause-and-effect relationship yeah I'm sure you can find a cause and effect
relation or an association or correlation between people wearing red
shirts and many different things but it's not like the red shirt causes a
medical or scientific effect so I would say really dig into the science really
determined like who else has seen this and if it comes to the situation where
you know you still were gonna report it make it clear this is a single study you
know this shows an association we need future studies or further investigation
to really confirm this yes those headlines that we see making rather old
correlations yes we do see a lot of them and it can be very misleading for just
ordinary people who are not experts at all on on medicine
well mr. Kaplan before we go of course as non-medical experts most members of
the public simply don't have enough medical or health knowledge really they
don't know all the facts to distinguish what's actually true or false so what
are some ways that people can actually use two spots fake news when they see it
yeah yeah it's it's hard to understand scientific studies like that the other
challenge is that most people have a terrible grasp of basic statistics which
is the underlying thing that that scientists rely upon it is this a
population it's large enough the extrapolate of all can we take this this
small study of five or ten people and say it's going to be big enough so very
hard for consumers to know what's going on look I would advise people to lean
back on the sources that they know about there are a number of initiatives from a
number of large news sources and social media sites that are designed to make it
easier to spot things so for example Facebook announced just this morning
they're gonna have the coronavirus Information Center that pops to the top
of your newsfeed if you're looking for information and if you rely upon
Facebook for news which honestly to many of us do but it is a fact people do that
turn first to this is but it is a resource that they have custom-built and
are making sure is populated with all the correct information Facebook said
this same sort of thing is going to come through whatsapp another platform that
they control they look for those types of resources trusted resources or
curated bits of information directly from a knowledgeable reputable source
rather than leaning on the text message you just got from your next-door
neighbor who happened to have heard something from some guy down the street
it's we often find bits of information like that that are shared socially and
they're oftentimes just misleading or or outright false so it really boils down
to I'm going to credible sources for information and maybe not necessarily
trusting every single headline that we see to grasp our attention well the
first thing they treat you as a journalist is don't trust anything out
there exactly they always yes have room for doubt and always question what you
see well that's all we have time for today I'm afraid but our viewers can
follow Bruce Wiley's articles on the issue and Jeremy Kaplan editor-in-chief
of digital transform more on how to spot fake news on the coronavirus especially
thank you both for joining us all the way from New York thank you thank you
this is where you'll say wrap up our show today join us tomorrow at the same
time for more global insights on issues making headlines as always thank you to
our viewers for watching and have a good one