recently it was an interesting exchange
of emails for between Sam Harris and
Noam Chomsky now I want to break it down
for you guys given the weightiness of
the matter obviously there'll be some
simplifications here uh but bear with me
and if you want I will provide the links
add-in in the description box below and
you can read it for yourself
but first uh the exchange was um begun
by some Sam Harris he wanna engage at no
Johnson Chomsky kept trying to you know
brush him off uh and Sam constantly want
to make it public what there's on the
wrong with that look are the interview I
had with it was public and I think
people gain from it I gained from uh
reading it now both um got pretty mad at
each other thought uh we've gained
nothing but I don't think that's
actually true now I'm slightly ánotá
both of them because they're constantly
talking about how all I've written
thirty books have written 50 books and
if you didn't read every word in every
book then you don't have a right to
criticize me let's get through it let's
have a conversation okay know everybody
didn't read every single book that
either one of you wrote in this case
Noam Chomsky was a little bit more
guilty of that this Sam Harris was and
they insult each other way too much in
in funny intellectual terms but
nonetheless they're clearly insults so
now again Noam Chomsky honestly a little
bit more guilty of that than Sam Harris
was in this case perhaps significantly
more guilty of that actually so I wish
they just engaged on the topic a little
bit better but in the end of the day I
still learned a lot now here's the part
where I'm gonna oversimplify they had a
huge debate over intention so what when
we bomb people Sam Harris's position is
well we don't mean to kill innocent
people and that intent the good intent
we have behind that is monumentally
important and Noam Chomsky says no the
intent is not nearly as important
although he doesn't clarify that as much
as I wish he would have in these email
exchanges though he points out places
where he does clarified in his books uh
but I have to confess that I think
Chomsky said airs on the side of
assuming bad intent by Western actors a
little bit more than I would now I could
be wrong he could be right about that
perhaps every time we do these bombings
we start the wars we have bad intent he
doesn't say that again to be
fare as not nearly nuanced enough okay
and read their books to get the full
nuance of it now but overall I lay
somewhere in the middle of that I think
that oftentimes uh we think we have good
intent and Chomsky by the way again
admits that he says look he almost says
the same hair stop being so naive uh
everybody thinks they have good intent
when Japan uh pulverize China they
thought they had the best of intentions
so he's saying it's a little childish to
think like oh it's okay I have good
intent right so what I did doesn't count
in Chomsky's point is of course it
counts and I think that's it I think is
very fair right
um now uh I want to give you some
details on it and so that you get a
better sense of it for yourself so I'm
gonna read to you and then uh what Sam
Harris wrote in the beginning to Noam
Chomsky and and I want to use this one
example as fairly indicative of the
conversation they had back and forth and
then update you with something that
happened in the news that actually is
perfectly related to the discussion that
they had and see the which side that it
falls on now you know again I think that
maybe Chomsky assumes bad intent too
often but I think he's got a great point
when he says Sam Harris assuming good
intent on the part of Western powers the
US and Israel gets to be a little bit
comical but I'm gonna read you Sam
Harris's close here you make up your own
mind okay he says in the beginning of
this dialogue it quoting himself he says
let us now ask some very basic questions
that Chomsky seems to have neglected to
ask himself and this again from his book
and he's sending this to Chomsky to get
him to address it he says what did the
US government think it was doing when he
sent cruise missiles into Sudan
destroying a couple chemical weapons
site used by al Qaeda the Clinton
administration intend to bring about the
deaths of Sudanese children no was our
goal to kill as many Sudanese as we
could no were we trying to kill anyone
at all not all as we thought
members of al Qaeda would be at the Al
Shifa facility in the middle of the
night what we euphemistically described
as collateral damage in times of war
is the direct result of limitations in
the power and precision of our
technology to see that this is so we
need only imagine how any of our recent
conflicts would have looked if we had
possessed perfect weapons weapons that
allowed us to either temporarily impair
or to kill a particular person or group
at any distance without harming others
or their property what would we do with
such technology how would George Bush
have prosecuted the recent war in Iraq
with perfect weapons would he have
targeted thousands of Iraqi civilians
who were maimed or killed by our bombs
when you put out the eyes of little
girls or torn the arms from their
mothers whether or not you admire the
man's politics or the man there's no
reason to think that he would have
sanctioned the injury or death or even a
single innocent person what would Saddam
Hussein or Osama bin-laden do with
perfect weapons what would Hitler have
done they would have used them rather
differently now as I read that having
read through then chops his response in
the entire interaction I have to say
that on that core issue I most certainly
agree with Noam Chomsky so as you read
that it seems comical to say George Bush
had heavenly intentions I know we use
our you're putting words it is not I
just read you his exact quotes okay but
now I'm describing it right George Bush
would have never killed anybody innocent
wait a minute you tell me is George Bush
invaded Iraq he thought unknown there
won't be anybody innocent killed here
you say all while he miscalculated he
knew there would be innocent people
killed but he wasn't trying to do that
he was trying to kill other people
knowing that all those other people were
gonna die but he didn't know hundreds of
thousands of innocent people were gonna
die which is what happened some argue
millions of innocent civilians died in
Iraq right so number one I do not
absolve him any rational human being
knows that if you start a war what wars
hell and a lot of innocent civilians
will die thousands of them and perhaps
hundreds of thousands now Bush and
fellow Republicans constantly start wars
and then when things go to hell that
they turn around ah well what wars how
nothing to do about it
if there is something you could do about
it don't start in the first place don't
pretend that you didn't know those are
the consequences
you had good intent no no even if you
were to be I believe enormously naive
and assume that George Bush Dick Cheney
and all the neo cons had wonderful
intent and go into Iraq you can't
possibly say that they didn't know the
consequences would be horrific civilian
deaths if they thought well okay getting
rid of Saddam Hussein outweighs that for
X Y Z really I mean people call
themselves liberals progressives think
that's a fair argument even if they
don't agree with Bush sure Cheney and I
Sam Harris constantly goes back and
forth and in this case he says like all
no I mean what Bush and Cheney did
terrible things that I don't agree with
the war necessarily but you have to
remember they did out the goodness of
their heart okay you think that's on
being ungenerous again just look at his
own words judge for yourself okay so
that's a huge point number one point
number two is on that Sudan Factory in
the midst of the debate Chomsky makes
great points is like look they they had
excellent information that it was
actually a pharmaceutical factory and
that if you knock out the pharmaceutical
factory in Sudan uh they don't have the
resource we do that is incredibly
important factory that produced uh
medicine for the people and the children
of Sudan you have to know that the
consequence of that is that thousands of
Sudanese civilians will die not just
from the bombing but from the fact that
they don't have drugs now Chomsky seems
absolutely convinced that they knew was
a pharmaceutical company and not a
chemical weapons plan I'm not as
convinced I don't know I don't know for
a fact right uh so even if I granted
them that Clinton acted with the best of
intentions to hit a chemical weapons
side that he thought al-qaeda might be
using he still knew that it would have
devastating consequences for Sedan
thought that's okay I can live with that
so when Chomsky says hey if you can live
with thousands of civilians being killed
because of your actions well I got a
question your intent right now Sam
Harris uh then turns and makes a case
how about how our cultures are different
and this is I think the core of what we
object to in
in Harris's ideology so let me read it
to you first he says it is time for us
to admit that not all cultures are at
the same stage of moral development
there's a radically in politic thing to
say
of course but it seems as objectively
true saying that not all societies have
equal material resources we might even
conceive of our moral differences in
just these terms not all societies have
the same degree of moral wealth now you
see that super communed that allows you
to say well I'm morally wealthier than
you uh I have an abundance of morality
and you are by definition because of
your religion amoral and so when I bomb
you
I have great intentions now for example
in the israel-palestinian latest
incursion into Gaza that in that
conflict well over 2,000 Palestinians
died el most of them civilians according
the United Nations but I have heavenly
intentions I have wonderful intentions
now about 63 or so I think Israeli side
that's horrific and when they die they
say you have horrible intentions you
know both sides intended to kill one
another they both have fairly bad
intentions now it's so easy for us in
the West to turn around and go but
Israel's just defending itself America
got attacked on 9/11 but wait a minute
Iraq didn't attack us on 9/11 at fifteen
out of the nineteen hijackers were Saudi
their base was in Afghanistan wouldn't
have Iraq having you with it nothing but
no it's ok because they're Muslim and
it's the same group that wants to kill
us all because they have no morals ok
now I didn't say all Muslims are wrong
but I said hey you happen hit the wrong
Muslim who cares because you had the
best of intentions right now in the case
of Israel oh man you were targeting my
civilians I was targeting your uh Hamas
in your radicals I happen to kill
thousands of your civilians but I had
the best of intentions well you'll
forgive me if I don't find that
persuasive now especially because and I
read you this quote for specific reason
Sam Harris gave this analogy
he loves to do hypotheticals of the
perfect weapons now by the way before we
even get to that I just like to note one
quick thing too so a lot of people who
are on Sam Harris aside will say but
wait I mean I see the Muslims beheading
people I see it on video the ISIS videos
are brutal they burn people alive I'm so
oh my god it's a machete you're right
those are all horrific now what do you
think happens when we drop a bomb on
someone if you'd like to see the video
of that it is beyond horrific they get
incinerated alive their heads explode
their bodies explode in the case of
Israel you saw the four kids on the
beach who got hit with a bomb they were
brutally brutally killed there with the
best of intentions right so our bombs
are just as lethal in fact far more
lethal just as vicious as their machetes
they don't have our bombs now I don't
want them using those machetes I don't
want them killing innocent civilians I
don't want either side doing that but
what is hypocritical is when you say
well when we incinerate people it's okay
because we have great intentions and we
kill a lot more of them they kill of us
but it's okay cuz we have great
intentions and now when they kill us oh
my God look how barbaric was I saw they
did it with a knife that looks so ugly
to me they kill less of us but doesn't
matter cuz they have terrible intentions
you know how their culture is their
culture is based on brutality and
violence if they could they'd kill all
of us they'd kill all the Jews in Israel
now they say it's because of the
religion Islam is worse than the other
religions but wait a minute
and this came out in our conversation
with sam harris that i did when he was
in here the Muslim empires ruled the
Middle East for a long time the Ottoman
Empire at least at five hundred years
there's a selcuk on Empire is a Persian
Empire different times there was
different Muslim empires and they didn't
kill all the Jews the Jews lived in that
area for thousands of years that's not
to say that those Muslim empires were
kind and great know they had horrible
things that happen within the building
those empires as did almost all empires
throughout history Rome
empire US empire you name it right but
it's not like because of Islam you must
kill all the Jews they had all the power
in the world they could have killed
everybody but they didn't it's not
because of the religion it's that when
you are less powerful you strike back in
vicious ways because you have no other
way of striking back and you get angrier
and angry and more radical and more
fundamentalist when you have more power
you have the leisure of being able to
say okay I'll bomb you here I'll attack
you there etcetera so it's a matter of
geopolitics far more than it is their
culture is horrible their religion is
more horrible than other religions their
intentions are worse than others so back
to perfect weapons and we'll conclude on
this Sam tells us if they had perfect
weapons they would obviously use them
because US Western powers are wonderful
interesting because breaking the silence
just had a report out about the I
Israeli Defense Force in that Gaza
incursion they say breaking the silence
has specifically condemned the Israeli
Defense Forces for the use of what it
describes statistical weapons mortars
and other artillery that are almost
impossible to aim accurately hmm now
let's go to another part of the
independent report to get more specific
information on this all areas of Gaza
particularly Shu Jaya and Beit Hanoun
were flattened during the campaign other
military personnel interviewed by
breaking the silence admit that this was
part of a deliberate effort by the IDF
and say that inaccurate weapons were
used to bombard neighborhoods before
ground troops arrived this is not us
saying it it is people soldiers in the
Israeli military saying we didn't use
the best weapons we had we didn't use
the perfect weapon we didn't use more
precise weapons we use less precise
weapons we did it on purpose now what
happened to your wonderful intent and
how they have the wrong culture and
they're not as morally wealthy as we are
turns out even using your analogy no
they have no interest in those weapons
they did want to intimidate the civilian
population again it's not me saying it
it's members of the Israeli Defense
Forces saying it now
let me quote one of those military
personnel from Israel
he said shells shells shells a
suspicious structure an open area field
a place where tunnel shaft could be fire
fire fire there was period of about five
days from the moment when we were first
called in for duty until there was a
ground incursion throughout that entire
time fire and if you read that whole
report they say over and over again they
were told don't worry about it if it's a
male in the area in fact if we've gone
into an area and we have ground troops
there it doesn't matter if you cannot
100% confirm that they're not Israeli
Defense Forces so then you got an issue
make sure they're not Israeli Defense
Forces but if they're not fire fire fire
don't bother to check if they're
civilians use less precise weapons
because we have to have the appearance
of victory and we have to teach them a
lesson you see how morally superior we
are in the West you see how the religion
of Islam is uniquely grotesque now we're
not the hypocrites on that whether it's
Noam Chomsky Glenn Greenwald myself or
others in in this particular camp what
we say is now all the religions are
wrong they're all wrong
Islam is just as wrong it's Christian
and not more not less that all the texts
are untrue there were no prophets that
Moses didn't exist
Mohammed didn't talk to God it's all
made up and they all have horribly
violent things in the text and sam
harris acknowledges that the Old
Testament is the bloodiest and the most
violent but they say no no it's okay
because Christians and the Jews well
they don't really believe in their text
whereas the Muslims are evil and
dangerous because they believe in those
texts no the texts are terrible any way
you slice it and the reality is no one
has any moral superiority to any other
human being we all react in a way that
is normal giving our geopolitical
circumstances
okay when the Muslims in this case are
weak they attack with terrorism when we
are strong we attack with bombs
we have precision bombs but we don't
always use it do we know we're killing
civilians of course we know we're
killing civilians if you want to say
that's a better intent and that makes us
better than the Muslims who we are
invading or occupying that's a
questionable morality okay if you're
comfortable with that okay well well
then we know where you stand but I stand
in the corner of we're all human beings
all the religions are wrong and we must
all take great care not to start these
wars because yes in fact they are hell
on earth