- Hello, and welcome back to couples talk.
I'm Jonathan Decker,
licensed therapist and co-founder of Mended Light.
- I'm Alicia Decker, CEO of Mended Light.
- And joining us today once again is Lark Dean Galley,
author of "Learning to Breathe Again:
Choosing to Heal After Losing a Loved One to Suicide".
- We just talked a lot about suicide in the last episode.
We're gonna go into the details
of how this has affected your life in multiple ways.
But if you haven't seen part one, go back and watch that.
Your dad was undiagnosed bipolar.
You talked about the insecurity,
the instability that that brought up in your life
and the life of your siblings, you were the oldest,
and you had to pick up a lot of the slack, right?
And then you talked about how it affected your relationships
as an adult with your husband
because of the patterns
and the examples that were set for you
and you didn't even realize like,
oh, this was really an unhealthy way
my parents dealt with conflict
because of the mental illness.
- Well, your father isn't the only time that your life
was touched by suicide.
Your son, Christian also took his life.
And I know that's had a tremendous impact on you
and a shift in your life mission,
and so I look forward to having that conversation
with you today
because I think there are a lot of people at home
who need to hear what you have to say.
- So you were an adult when you lost your dad to suicide.
And that was--
- That's almost eight years.
Yeah, almost eight years ago.
And it was a breaking moment.
The sad part is I knew that at some point
he was going to take his life.
He talked about it,
we had a conversation about it every few months.
He would bring it up.
He had DNR tattooed on his chest.
That stands for do not resuscitate.
- Tattooed.
- Tattooed on his chest.
Not that it helped
because the paramedics did try to resuscitate him
and I can talk about that in a minute,
but he was doing unhealthy, unsafe behaviors.
He got an additional life insurance policy out
for accidental death and dismemberment
for high risk activities.
And then he would get his motorcycle,
fast motorcycles,
and he would go riding through the mountains
very fast speeds type thing.
He never had an accident with that,
but if he had died that way,
I think that would have been an easy out for him.
So you can see this unsafe behavior.
- For those watching a home,
I wanna issue a trigger warning for this episode.
This is meant to be healing,
this has meant to be helpful,
but it is probably gonna be quite heavy
and we're gonna go right into it.
And so if you yourself are contemplating death by suicide,
pause this episode,
there is a number right here on the screen
for the national suicide prevention hotline.
Give someone a call to talk through this.
This episode is meant to be very helpful for you
or for those who have lost a loved one to suicide,
but if you find yourself triggered,
it's okay to pause and get some help
or engage in some self-care,
talk to your therapist
or watch this with a family member.
So thank you.
- And you're right to say that
because as a child of a parent who took his life by suicide,
very angry, right?
And as I mentioned in the last episode,
I did not realize how his death was going to impact me.
Five months of like in a dark hole
not knowing what I was doing or going through the day.
And I look back and I have a dark hole for five months,
I don't remember that.
And so just seeing my father over time,
he would try to get help,
he would try to find the right medication,
it didn't always work.
He would go off medication, go on,
and then to see his siblings struggle,
to see my cousins and to see several of my brothers
and sisters struggle with it.
- So when he died by suicide,
you talked about going into a dark hole
for six months, you said?
- Five months. - Five months.
- Mm-hmm.
- And that there was just a dam of emotion
that had been held back for sounds like decades-
- Yes. - that just broke.
I know that people who take their own life
very often are in a headspace
of everyone will be happier without me.
- Yes. - They'll be better off
without me.
There may be sad for a little bit,
and then they'll let me go.
And this is part of this way of thinking
so that they can be free.
And what those of us who haven't been there
to that place of despair before don't really understand
is how outside of mainstream thinking and emotion
a person is there.
- [Lark] Yes.
- And how miserable and sad and overwhelming it is
and you just want the pain to stop.
- [Lark] Yes.
- And a lot of people looking at it from the outside
think it's selfishness
because they've never experienced it.
And so can you speak to being on the family side of things?
- [Lark] Mm-hmm.
- Is the idea that they'll be happier without me,
there'll be sad for a little bit,
and then they'll be able to move on,
is that true?
- No, it's not at all true.
And I know what you're saying.
For those who are contemplating suicide,
often it's black or white.
All or all or nothing.
And that's really not the way it is.
Let's keep looking for ways to find help
so that you can feel better.
It's not black and white.
I look back and I think,
wow, what else could we have done?
How could I personally have reached out to my father?
As I mentioned, because of growing up
the relationship wasn't very close.
I was quite frustrated with him
and almost feeling like
how can I actually impact him to change his life?
I don't even know.
A lot of times I didn't even wanna talk to him
because he was so depressed.
- [Jonathan] Yeah. - And he lived
in my mother-in-law apartment
and so when we would have holiday gatherings,
Christmas, Thanksgiving,
a lot of times we hosted and would have my siblings there
and the grandkids.
And I can remember times
where my father would come up to eat,
sometimes he would stay,
but a lot of times he would just fill his plate
and he would go back downstairs.
And I see this over and over
with people who are isolated or struggling,
they isolate themselves.
Which is exactly the opposite of what you need to do
when you're struggling.
You need to be with people and you need to interact.
- And sometimes putting yourself out there
is extremely difficult
so what family members can do, it sounds like,
is reaching the handout.
Extend the invitation.
Go down and say hey, come join us.
There is a delicate balance
because when a loved one dies by suicide,
on the one hand,
we can get trapped in self blame,
but the fact is if someone is truly determined to do it,
they're going to find the way.
- [Lark] Yes.
- Is the first thing.
The second thing,
you're talking about connection.
And I talked about it a little bit in the last video
of what people need.
They need a professional when it comes to mental health.
Family members aren't trained to do that,
but they do need connection,
they do need community,
they do need to not be isolated.
And people ask, could I have done more?
I think the answer is always probably yes to some degree,
but that doesn't mean that it's your fault, right?
But we look at it and if you know someone who's struggling,
it's not your job to fix it,
it's not your job to make it go away.
It is your job to let them know that you are there for them,
and that you would be devastated if--
- If they were to take their life.
- Can we speak about Christian?
- Sure.
So Christian is my son.
He was 19 when he took his life.
And because of my family's history
of bipolar mental illness
I thought I did a good job in watching
to see if any of this carried into my children.
And apparently I did not do a good enough job
because I did not know that my son was struggling.
And he was.
I found out later from his friends that he was struggling
and they said, "We knew he was struggling,
we knew he was talking about suicide,
but we didn't take it seriously."
And I'm like, "When somebody talks about it,
you should always take it seriously."
- [Jonathan] Right.
- And then the other thing was--
- 'Cause people say, well, I just think it's a cry for help,
or they're just trying to get attention
and generally speaking, it is a cry for help.
And they are trying to get attention,
but not in the I'm trying to get attention
will somebody please help me.
And yes, in my field there are people who play that card
and they don't mean it.
It's always best to err on the side of caution.
- Exactly.
- [Jonathan] Right. - So that you'll never
have regrets, right?
- [Jonathan] Correct.
- Right. - [Jonathan] Yeah.
- And then the friend said to me after Christian died,
"I thought about reaching out to you,
but I didn't know when would be a good time."
And I'm like, "As soon as you hear about it,
that's a good time."
Right?
- [Jonathan] Yeah.
- Because I look at that and think,
okay, we might've changed things.
Now, does that mean he might never have taken his life?
No.
But it might've meant that we would have been with him
a little bit longer and maybe found some answers
to help him
or even knew that he was struggling.
That would have been helpful.
And so I look at that and I think as a parent
I always thought I was a good parent.
I always thought,
talk to my kids about underage drinking,
pre-marital sex,
all of these things that you warn your kids about,
stranger danger, all of these things,
and yet I did not know that suicide
was the number one killer of youth in Utah,
it's the number two killer nationwide.
I didn't know this.
Because even though my father had died by suicide,
at the time,
it was five years before my son died,
I couldn't talk about suicide.
I couldn't say the word,
my best friends didn't know how my father died.
And I looked back and I think that
that was my coping mechanism.
And then when my son died by suicide,
I started to go into that black hole
because I was familiar with it
from my going through it with my father.
And I quickly realized two things.
The first thing is that I didn't have the luxury
of going into a black hole
because my husband and my other kids were struggling.
And if I wasn't there fully,
they might not be there when I came out of my black hole.
- [Jonathan] Yeah.
- And the other thing is that parents, my friends,
started reaching out to me when my son died
and they had teenagers who knew my son.
And the parents expressed concern not only for me,
for my son, but also for their kids.
Because their kids had either attempted
or had been considering suicide.
And because of their knowing Christian,
their concern was a copycat suicide.
And so I quickly realized that I had a responsibility
to speak out to help these children
because I couldn't change what had happened with Christian
and while I wanted to sort of hide,
my thought was if I don't talk about it,
then I would have a responsibility towards these kids
if they did take their life.
I can't affect their agency and if they choose to or not,
but I can choose whether I speak out or not.
And that's what I started to do
and I just started talking about it,
and the more I talked about it,
the more people came to me and said
I've been struggling or I attempted.
And these were people that I never would have thought
were struggling.
And that's what I think happens,
is when we create a safe space to talk about it,
then people can say I am struggling, I do need help.
- Your book is focused on helping people in your position,-
- Yes. - specifically
the family members.
Can you tell us why this book?
- And that's a very interesting book
because I was planning
to write a Christian story basically, right?
From my standpoint as his parent.
And then as I started writing the book,
a friend of mine from high school days said,
"Well, you're gonna talk about your childhood, aren't you?"
And I said, "Oh, why would I talk about my childhood?
I don't want to talk about my childhood."
She goes, "No, your childhood was crazy.
I could remember gonna your house
and you as a teenager were hiding food
so that you'd have food the next day."
And I thought, I don't remember doing that.
And so if you don't remember something,
it wasn't abnormal,
it was just part of your life.
And I thought, well, that's a little bit scary, right?
That's what I was doing to survive.
And she said, "No, you need to talk about the bipolar,
the instability of your family."
That helped in being able to write that story
because then I could see this pattern happening
with my father and then how I as an adult tried to cope
with the instability.
From my youth I became even more strict.
- Yeah, you're very structured, very rigid.
- Yes, very rigid.
- 'Cause we've been friends for years.
I never met Christian,
but you talked to me about Christian.
And having those personal conversations with you
and then in reading your book,
I can see like all the things you did
with your personality type,
but also creating structure and stability
because you had none,
right? - Right.
- And that that was...
That was your saving grace, right?
Was doing-- - that's how I coped.
- Right.
It was doing that for yourself
and then raising kids trying to cope, right,
with your structure and stability
and them not having those same needs
and not understanding why you have those needs.
- Right.
- And while each of our stories is...
Like my story is nothing like yours,
I can relate to that.
I can relate to here's the challenging thing in my life
that happened
and then here's how I coped with it
not even knowing that this is how I coped with it,
and then this is the ripple effect
those coping mechanisms had.
Being in a place where you can be aware
of your individual needs,
having the awareness,
oh, here's what my loved one's needs are,
my spouse, my children,
and then how do we meet both of those needs?
And it's challenging and it's a struggle
but I love what you said in episode one.
It was just a small moment
but you said,
"I think we need to give each other grace".
I think that's always the place where we start with,
with ourselves, right?
'Cause so often there's so much internal judgment
of, I could have done something different,
I could have done something more,
how could I not see?
That even these were my coping mechanisms
and how it affected other people.
Giving ourselves that grace
and then turning that outwards towards our loved ones.
- And I look at that and say my father did
the best he knew how at the time.
I did the best I knew how at the time.
My son did the best he knew how at the time.
And being able to allow grace,
and that's the one thing I think the blessing
from this whole situation with my son
is that I'm less judgmental,
I'm more apt to give people grace in that,
allow people to be who they are in their own journey.
- Oh, and people need that.
People need acceptance.
People grow and change.
We often think, well, if I just accept people,
then they're not gonna get any better
and they're not gonna make changes.
They're just think they're great just the way they are.
But the fact is when people feel respected and loved,
my mom used to say
the whole "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar",
but also I saw it I saw a plaque one time that said,
"Be the man your mom thinks you are".(laughs)
Right?
Just the notion of people rise up to the expectations
we hold for them.
That type of positive reinforcement
that comes with you are good enough as you are,
you are enough as you are.
Being more, learning more, having greater capacity,
will just bring you more joy
and I want that for you.
But you don't need to do it for me to accept you.
- And I think as parents that's exactly our role.
Before I always felt that
if my children don't succeed in life
and become these wonderful, fabulous people
that change the world, then I have failed
and I put a lot of pressure on myself.
And now I realize that as a parent,
my job is to accept and love them no matter what.
No matter what.
And I've changed the way I parent
from before my son died to now.
- Yeah, how so?
- So before it was very strict.
We're a military family-
- [Jonathan] Yeah. - and it was like
the kids had curfew and my husband was right there.
And if they were one minute late,
they were grounded for two weeks.
He would be there with the clock watching them,
and it was very strict.
If they did something that maybe I did not think
was for their highest and best,
they would hear about it
and maybe there would be repercussions, right?
And so- - [Jonathan] (indistinct)
- my adult daughter,
she's now 21,
but a year ago she joined the military, she's combat medic,
she came home and shortly after coming home
from her basic and her annual training
she had a tattoo tattooed on the side of her foot,
which normally that would not have gone down.
She's living at home,
so it would not have gone down
in the Galley household, right?
And I looked at that and I just said,
"Well, you know what, honey,
you've always loved the mountains."
It was a picture of the mountains.
"You've always loved the mountains and good for you."
- I bet she was shocked.
- Yeah, she probably was.
I didn't even feel like this any pain inside my heart,
like oh my goodness,
there's a slippery slope.
It's her life.
She's going to choose what she's going to do, right?
- Yeah.
- There's always something worse.
And that's something worse is suicide,
which we've had this something worse
so at this point, what's a tattoo?
And then a few months later
she started sporting a belly ring.
And I started laughing and I'm like,
"Yeah, mom's thinking of getting one too."
And she was like, "Oh, please mom don't."
(all laugh)
But it was just one of those things
where I could just laugh and instead of thinking,
oh, she's making choices that I might not make,
she's doing what she feels good about.
And I'm okay with that.
- Lark, thank you so much for sharing your story with us.
And what I find most inspirational
is how you showed up in your pain.
And you felt that happening this time.
And you said, basically I have a choice, right?
I can go into my dark hole
or I can be honest about what I'm experiencing.
I can show up and I can support those around me
and not minimize your pain, but speak about it honestly
and truthfully and try and support others through
that are struggling with similar things
or have struggled with the same thing.
And I think that's truly an inspiration
so thank you so much for doing that.
And for those who have experienced trauma in their lives
and need some support,
we have a free trauma resource in the description below.
Go ahead and click that link.
We are here to support you.
- Yes we are.
And we have another video we wanna direct you to,
"Trauma and Sexual Abuse Part One",
that you can check out right here.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Lark has been talking with us about mental health
and about death by suicide.
And in our conclusion,
we're gonna talk about the grieving process.
So thank you so very much for being with us
and as always, keep shining.
We need your light.
(soft music)