-Hi, I’m Martin Rust, I’m with the Security and Policy Institute of Professional
Development, here, at the University of Ottawa.
My guest, this afternoon, is Phil Lagassé, associate professor, here, at the
University of Ottawa.
We’ve been talking about ISIS and global terrorism and various geopolitical
events, and I want to ask you your opinion in terms of what you think are some
of the most important events happening in the world today and maybe, some of their implications
for Canada.
-Well, I’d say, if we’re looking specifically at Canada, certainly the rise of sectarianism
in the wider Middle East is an issue that is
of concern to the Canadian government for a
variety of reasons.
The first one, obviously, as we saw in October of last year, is that it
can have impacts here, at home.
-Mm-mm.
-Home grown terrorism and extremism …
-Mm-mm.
-… that’s influenced or inspired by sectarian movements in that region generally, and
how it might affects us here, at home.
Secondly, the general instability in that region, that
affects our allies, the United-States, Israel and others, will come and impact our national
interest as well.
So, we have a general interest, as we always have had since the Second
World War, in general global peace and stability, and the biggest source of instability
currently, today in the world, arguably, is the rise of sectarian violence in the Middle
East.
Now, we’ve had a great amount of difficulty trying to deal with that because,
fundamentally, it is a regional problem that has to be addressed by regional actors.
But we, as Canadians, have to realize that this
instability does affect our interests, it affects
the interests of our allies and ultimately, if we are going to contribute to a solution
to the problem, we need to be involved both in helping
local governments, local partners come to grips with the problem of sectarianism
and violent extremism but also, in the short term, providing military and security solutions
that allow those regional actors the room that they need to breath in order to address
that problem.
-My sense is that this is a different type of conflict, that this is not just something
that happens over there, but it very much has issues
and implications here as well, in our community.
And perhaps that’s different then what we’ve seen in, certainly, my lifetime
and probably, for a few generations.
Would you agree with that and what some of those
forces might be?
-Well, we’ve always had what we would, today, call "transnational movements".
So, if you look at … communism in the early 20th
century was an issue and a movement that found itself, yes, in Russia at the time …
-Mm-mm.
-… with the Bolshevik revolution and had an impact here, at home, with the rise of
different left wing movements and … that type of impact.
The difference today, I would argue and I think you … what you’re getting
at, is the fact that currently, now, for an individual or even a small group of individuals,
it’s far easier today to have a large impact, a large violent impact than it might
have been in the past.
And therefore, this is why we … the spread of these ideologies
and these movements, and the spread and ease with which people can cross borders and communicate
across borders, makes the rapidity and the impact of their ideology felt across
the world, and across states, and across borders, much more significant than in the
past.
-So, turn that around and look at it from the perspective of a Canadian politician or
a Canadian policy maker, someone in government
today who touches policy.
How aware are we really of the geopolitical environment
that we live in and what are the things we need to consider?
-I think that we’re generally aware of the geopolitical environment that we’re in.
I think the Canadian government is actually quite
good at harnessing the resources that it has, namely, Five Eyes intelligence and its own
analytic capability to understand world events.
The issue for Canada unfortunately is … let’s admit it, we are something of a
secondary power.
We don’t necessarily have all the instruments of power and influence at
our disposal that allows us to make a greater impact.
So, we are to some extent reliant on allies, reliant on regional partners in order
to defend ourselves against these threats and
similarly, in order to influence events over- … abroad.
So we are somewhat of a secondary power, we can contribute and do
quite a bit but we still are not at the forefront of some of these efforts.
That being said, we are able to punch above our weight and do
what we can, particularly in the military realm and the intelligence realm, but I would
say the biggest challenge facing decision makers,
here, in Ottawa, is the fact that we know a
lot but there’s very little that we can always do to be able to thwart threats or
to be able to address them.
-To thwart threats, address them and even, really, to communicate about them with a
broader public and a broader general population.
-Well, I would say … that’s a very good point because one of the largest issues facing
policy makers today, I would argue, is Canadians simply … even after the attacks of
October, do not necessarily feel that this is a threat that affects them.
-Yeah.
-It is not … and even larger threats such as cyberthreats, the rise of other powers,
global economic instability …
-Mm-mm.
-… it’s difficult and … for Canadians, everyday, to see that affecting their daily
lives.
And on the count of that, this has been a long standing Canadian tradition that it’s
difficult to mobilise people to come to grips with the security reality that they face and
as a result, it’s difficult to garner support
for policies that are meant to address them effectively.
-Yeah.
Well, these are issues that we’re going to be dealing with here, at the Institute,
on an ongoing basis.
Thank you very much for being here.
-Thank you.
-My name is Martin Rust, I’m with the Security and Policy Institute of Professional
Development, here, at the University of Ottawa.
My guest today is Phil Lagassé, associate professor of Public and International
Affairs, here, at the University of Ottawa.
Thank you.
-Thank you.