Hello.
Good morning.
And welcome to WTF, where we transform food.
We were totally expecting to go live at this exact moment.
Today we've got a bit of a cheesy episode.
It's titled easier cheesier.
So can probably caught on by the set here that what we're
talking about today is cheese.
Now I know a little bit about cheese.
I'm not a cheese-ologist, but I do know that we should introduce ourselves.
Hi, I'm home cook and hot mess, Mark Frechette.
And I'm the research and development chef here at Modernist Pantry.
My name is Scott Guerin.
All right.
So I do know a little bit about cheeses, and I know that these are obviously
clearly two completely different cheeses.
Well, there, they're only different in the way that they look, they
were actually the same exact cheese.
This cheese is just melted in a pot and you can see it's clumped and
all the fat has rendered out of it.
And then this cheese was melted with our product today, which is sodium citrate.
And it is nice and smooth.
It can be used on a number of different things.
So this is a super familiar look, right?
This is, this is you've gone and you've gotten either some really
nice cheddar or some normal like shreds or something like that.
You tried your best to melt it over nachos.
This is probably what's on the nachos and everything else is what's slopping
along the bottom of the plate.
Right?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
People sometimes will make nachos just by putting shredded cheese on and
putting them in the microwave sometimes.
And then you just get a greasy slick, and then some some
protein on top from the cheese.
But if you make cheese with sodium citrate and a little bit of milk, just to keep it
nice and flowing, you can have a beautiful cheese just like this in minutes.
Now this is super smooth.
So I would've thought this was one of the store-bought, red foil package, we
can't say the brand name, melting cheeses.
Well, I mean, it's similar in that it does melt, but you don't know
the quality of cheese that went into that red package as you claim,
but we have the cheese right here.
It's a nice high quality yellow cheddar that I took and I melted in
two different ways here to show you.
So you can pick the quality of cheese and you can do it
with any cheese that you want.
So you're not just limited to orange velvet cheetah.
You can, you can use, now we happen to be using it.
I think you got a cheddar here, right, today?
Yeah, it's actually, it's, it's a nice high quality yellow cheddar that I took.
I don't want to say the brand name.
But why is that cheese...
We know that there's a magic ingredient here, but why is the
cheese breaking up like this?
So the protein and the fat melt at two different temperatures.
So immediately, the fat is going to melt right away.
And then the protein is going to try and catch up.
And they're not bound in any way.
So sodium citrate acts as an emulsifier.
So it bonds to the calcium ions that's in the cheese and it keeps
the fat and the protein together.
So they melt evenly.
So that's why you get this beautiful melty cheese as opposed to this melted cheese.
Awesome.
So cool.
If you could do the overhead shot real quick.
So what you're talking about here is this, the kind of the gloppy stuff in the
middle, that's all the proteins together.
And then this, that we're all kind of used to, this is actually just all
the fats that have been emulsified.
That's the natural fat that's in the cheese that just melts right out.
Now we happen to use ingredient here, but is there, is there any
amount of whisking and manual labor that will ever get this there?
No, I mean, if you're just doing it in a pot using a whisk, you're just
gonna, you know, have strands of cheddar protein mixed up, and you're still
going to get the fat that renders out.
Sure.
Unless you're extremely high-powered arm or you have a blender, like you,
you could potentially get them together, but they're not going to be free
flowing for, you know, the duration you need, they will eventually separate.
So what we used in, in, in the creamier one here is a sodium citrate,
which is super affordable, too, we'll talk about that in a second.
But what is sodium citrate doing with the protein and with the fat that's kind
of keeping it together for the curds?
So like I said, it acts as an emulsifier.
It bonds to the calcium and the calcium is in between the fat and the protein.
So when they melt, they melt evenly instead of the fat
just melting right away.
And then you have the glob of protein.
So it allows them to melt evenly.
And in this one, like I said, I just added a little bit of milk and
there's also fat and protein in milk.
So it helps, you know, bond them right together.
You don't have to add milk.
I did it because I wanted a nice flowing cheese for our nachos here.
Yeah.
Fantastic.
Sorry.
I'm going to manage the Facebook live comments.
By the way, guys, feel free to throw your questions,
comments, and stuff in here too.
We'll kind of take them at the end if you're joining us for the live version.
So what, staying with WTF, what's the food that this kind of makes easier?
He says, while gesturing at the nachos.
Well, obviously nachos.
Yeah, because you can have a beautiful melty cheese that
goes right over the top of them.
Also dipping cheese.
Say if you were doing hot pretzels or warm pretzels and a
beer cheese, you could do that.
Instead of adding the milk, you would just add beer to it.
Also I made a nice sliceable cheddar that I put on grilled cheese right here.
So I took it, put a very small amount of milk and it made a nice thick
cheddar, put it into a mold and I was able to slice it and make beautiful,
grilled cheese that melted evenly.
Because if sometimes, if you use a higher quality cheese like the cheddar that
we have here, and you don't add sodium citrate to keep it together, you're going
to get like a fatty, oily bread rather than a nice, beautiful grilled cheese.
So what are some of the foods that this absolutely makes easier, better?
So I like to use it in Mac and cheese.
Mac and cheese is great with this.
You can make a beautiful creamy Mac and cheese.
I know sometimes people use a Rue, which is a butter and flour, but
you're also adding butter and flour to it, which you don't need to.
You can just have a pure cheese Mac and cheese that you're
pouring over your macaroni.
So you can really use more interesting cheeses and really get
fancy with it, not be stuck with velvet cheetah, or powdered packets.
And, and like I said, any cheese can work with this.
You can turn any cheese into a nice sliceable cheese.
It'll take a little bit of know-how.
The amount of sodium citrate and which we're going to get to, and, you know,
turning something like blue cheese or goat cheese, or feta into a sliceable cheese
will take different amounts of milk.
But once you get the understanding of it, you can do anything with this product.
So it's fairly easy to experiment with too, right?
Try it out.
See if it works.
And you can remelt it again, if it didn't quite work.
Yes.
So if you wanted to, say, if you were tailgating or whatnot, you don't want
to keep a hot pot of cheese or a fondue, you know, coming all the way over to
the game, you would just, you know, mold it into a block, take it, reheat
it there, and then pour it over there.
Wonderful.
Hi Donna.
Hi Lori.
Thanks for joining us and everyone else who's joined the live stream as well.
All right.
So what is, what are some foods that this makes a little bit more, more portable?
You can only live so long off of a Mason jar salad or something.
So is there anything that this makes, for the home cook, more portable?
And for chefs, maybe a little bit more prime for advanced prep?
All right.
We'll get into the advanced prep work in just a second.
But like I said, if you wanted to mold it and you could bring it to work, if
you mold that you can grate it as well.
So anything that you want that has cheese in it, you can take anywhere.
So it really makes any cheese meltable and portable to anywhere.
And I've mentioned tailgating.
So it can't get more portable than that.
Right.
That's true.
And then for advanced prep work, sodium citrate isn't just a one trick pony.
It doesn't just work with cheese.
It can work with numerous different things.
So if you're into spherification, which is a modern technique that we
use, spherification doesn't really like too acidic of environments.
So this acts as a buffer.
And what that means is it lowers the acidity of your liquid so
that your product can work.
Great.
Fantastic.
So it sounds like a bit of a scary ingredient to those who
are, who are kind of newer to, to these kinds of weird sounds.
So apart from modernistpantry.com, where does sodium citrate actually come from?
Sodium citrate comes from citrus fruits.
So it's the sodium, or the salt, that is found in citrus fruits naturally.
So it's just, you know, derived right from there, and then granulated and packaged.
So somewhat scary name, but fairly natural.
And it's fun.
Every, every name like this will be intimidating.
So is sodium bicarbonate, which is baking soda, which we all have in our
refrigerators or we have in our pantry.
Yeah.
So it, it, it may sound intimidating, but once you understand what it is, it's easy.
That's fantastic.
So we, we talked a little bit, a little bit about molding.
What are some other great uses for, for an easier cheese, either as a
sauce or even in its solid forms?
So you can tell, take it and say you wanted to make your own cheese ball
you know, for a party or whatnot for d'oeuvres, you can mold the cheese
into whatever shape that you want, especially if you wanted to have a nice
cheese platter and you have a nice, you know, melted cheese right there,
or molded cheese to pick from there.
So bonus points, we were talking off camera.
I promised I wouldn't say it, but bonus points, if you happen to have
some pun worthy stuff if you've got a small Frankenstein silicone mold, you
can call it of course Eddie Munster.
Or Cheddy Munster, depends on the blend, of course.
Boo cheese.
I don't know why I'm going to Halloween already.
It's okay.
It's so funny.
People will watch this, right.
So hopefully get ideas for Halloween.
So sodium, citrate's pretty easy to get a hold of as well.
This, this little packet here, I think is only $6, $7 at modernistpantry.com.
How, how quickly can I go through a packet like this?
How much do I know to use?
So that packet is 50 grams.
And the best usage for sodium citrate is you take the weight of the cheese
and then you only add around 3%.
Sure.
This actually may be slightly lower.
Excuse me.
0.5% to 0.7%.
So there's a little bit of a range depending on what you're doing.
But I like it around 3% to get a nice melty cheese like this.
So it doesn't look like half oil, half protein.
And in most uses, just start melting the cheese down, well carefully measure and
pour your carefully measured things in.
Don't.
Yes.
Okay.
And it's extremely easy.
If, if you have a hand blender or a, you know, a stand blender in your kitchen,
you could toss it in there and it's done in just seconds once it's melted.
So we were talking kind of last week when we were really sad and it was hard
to pick the first ingredient to feature.
'Cause we've got so many.
And sodium citrate was such an interesting one.
We had some other weird uses, not weird uses, but uses you
might not think about coming up.
My favorite was the flourless roux that Chris had mentioned.
That you could possibly make a roux for the basis of, or that
you didn't have to make a roux.
Sorry, for a lot of these sauces where you normally have to.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So if you wanted to not make a roux for a cheese sauce, then you don't have to.
I haven't personally made béchamel with sodium citrate, yeah,
there may be a way to do it.
It would cut the calories a little.
A little bit.
Yeah.
But yeah, absolutely.
For this, you don't get that flour flavor.
And sometimes when people make a roux, they don't cook the flour enough.
So you get, you know, a really raw flour flavor, which isn't ideal.
No, no, all my rouxs end in ruin.
Okay.
Yeah.
That's, that's kinda why I'm here, to learn.
Fantastic.
Are there any kind of new experiences you can do with this?
We talked a little bit about the molding cheeses either, either for
the home chef, the entertaining chef or the professional chef?
With these, there's, there's so many, I mean, this is not a one trick pony.
We're showing cheeses here today, but if you wanted to use this in a
number of different items that we have, any functional ingredient that
does jelling usually has, you know, a love/hate relationship with acidity.
So this right here just brings a pH to the correct you know, 4.0,
and you can use your agar, your carrageenan, whatever it happens to be.
It'll help that.
So it, it can really be used in a number of different things.
So you don't, it sounds like you don't need a lot.
I mean, like to, to, to make a creamy cheese or even a slice-y cheese.
So, you know, a packet like this, oftentimes when we buy
something, we get nervous.
It's gonna, it's going to be that time we went to Whole Foods.
We can't say brands.
That time we went to that store, bought the big thing, used this
much, and threw away this much.
But this has a fairly long, stable shelf life.
Absolutely.
I mean, it's a dry ingredient.
As long as you keep it sealed in, in your cupboard.
There is a use-by date on the back, but it's usually around two
years from when you purchase it.
So you get a long use out of it.
May 2020.
Considering you use such a small amount to make any of these recipes, that
you're going to have it for a long time.
Especially 50 grams should be easy.
So a definite grab because it can make for some awesome Mac and cheese,
have it around for nacho night.
And know that you have it in your well, not your back pocket, but your cupboard.
This is my walking around sodium citrate.
But, but know that you can have it for doing the fancier hosting things.
So they, for the home cook.
And then it sounds like it's got plenty of uses to earn a spot in
most kitchens that are working with cheese, the creamy cheese or otherwise.
Yeah.
All right.
Cool.
Well, fantastic.
Thank you all for joining us on WTF, where we transform food here in
the Modernist Pantry test kitchen.
If you want to learn more about this, visit us online at modernistpantry.com.
If you want to know some of the recipes we've been working with, we'll be posting
them up at blog.modernistpantry.com.
And there's plenty of recipes waiting for you there.
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For those of you who are joining us on-demand, we'll end it here so that
there's not a long awkward silence.
Thank you all so much.