Film Courage: What makes comic book movies great?
Scott Menzel, Film Critic, Writer, Hollywood Critics Association Founder: Another question
that depends on who you ask. My favorite comic book movies are the ones that embrace being a
comic book. We've seen a really big pivot in this over the last couple of years. I think
Nolan was the one who kind of changed the game with Batman Begins because we then approached
superhero movies as being grounded in the real world
and as much as I enjoyed Nolan's views on that and his style and what he's done with the characters,
he's almost set up this stage for many comic book movies to fail because we want them almost to
be grounded in reality now. Again, going back to my childhood and growing up as a kid of the 80’s
I grew up with Adam West Batman which is like so silly and over the top
and then you had of course Christopher Reeves with Superman, Tim Byrne was Batman and Batman Returns
and they all had this very much like different world I was escaping to a different world
and then Nolan came in and he was like no it could be grounded in reality and then we've
seen this even with Joker we've seen it with the Matt Reeves Batman where it's very grounded
and then on the other end of the spectrum you got kind of the Marvel Cinematic Universe
that they've been trying to tie in real world issues into this comic book space
but I know I sound like I'm beating a dead horse here but it all comes back down to story
and characters if a character is well developed whether it's a comic book movie
or any type of movie you're going to find an audience you're going to connect people are
going to connect right people like Tony Stark because he's a cool character but he's also a
well-developed character Robert Downey Jr really made that character his own and while a lot of
people say that a lot of Tony Stark is just Robert Downey Jr that's the way the character
is written it was written for him so you're just you may be just watching him but you've
grown to like him and the stories help Elevate him and that's what's great about it so to me
you you can have all these characters it's what you do with their progression how the movie starts
where it goes in the middle and How It Ends is whether it's going to be a good comic book
movie or not is it going to leave you wanting more are you going to want to see more of this
character because we all know and unfortunately nowadays one movie is Never Enough one movie is
never enough so as much as I like Joker and I was hoping that joker was going to be a one-off
there's a Joker 2 coming and it's going to be a musical and all these people are going to be in it
yeah I'm curious to see it don't get me wrong but the reason why people
like that movie and why people connected with that movie is that it again they liked what
Joaquin Phoenix brought to the table they like that character they liked the way that it was
written what what he was able to do with that material so everything else sure the visual style
everyone loved about it everyone's referencing Oh Martin Scorsese you look and all this stuff
but if you take Joaquin Phoenix out of that does the movie like what would that movie be with
another actor and that's that's what you really you really got to focus on is that character and
who's I guess also I should say whose cast is that character right because do those people become the
character that you want them to be you get lost in Joaquin Phoenix as Joker right we get that we
like that Iron Man we know it's Robert Downey Jr and a lot of these movies with so many characters
nowadays eternals I don't mean to keep crapping on this movie but like to me you have too many actors
no character develop development no story like where is this going I have no idea I
walked away from that movie If I never seen those characters again I'd be completely fine
but you you want to spend more time with characters and character development is
so important especially in superhero movies because that they're going to keep making them
so like if if an actor is bad in a role and the story doesn't work it again doesn't
matter the production value doesn't matter the costumes doesn't matter the hair and makeup
it's it's not going to win people over and that's what you're seeing right now I think with the
phases this last phase of Marvel is that you're seeing so many things get thrown at you you're
seeing you're seeing Sam raimi's fingerprints all over doctor strange but yet people are complaining
like oh did this person not watch Wanda Vision because Elizabeth Olsen is weird in this movie she
doesn't seem to like realize what happened in one division and what is Benedict Cumberbatch doing
here he was so different in this one compared to how he was in the other movies and you watch in a
weird way even Thor right it's like okay like he's he's out of shape and now like all of a sudden
like he's back in shape and like a montage I don't know they're losing the the writing it's becoming
style over substance is what I've what I've been seeing with Marvel phase four is style
over substance there's so much style and they're trying to combine these two ideas like there's
a taika with TT movie here and then there's the Marvel movie here there's a Sam Raimi movie here
and then there's the Marvel movie here and you you really need to believe in your director and
your cast and your screenwriters to tell the story they want us to tell this kind of takes me back to
Zack Snyder right Zack Snyder's Justice League that came out on HBO Max after fan support for
like seemed like almost a decade but it was only like five years but the outpouring of support was
because everyone who knew Zack Snyder knew that that movie that they put in theaters wasn't his
vision and they weren't happy about it and that's why there was so much of a fight for it because
these are beloved characters that people know that literally decades upon Decades of comic
books were written about and yes he didn't follow the formula that probably Warner Brothers wanted
but he wanted to tell his vision and they they mess with his vision
and that's the thing about his movies that I respect him about you can watch Man of Steel you
can watch Batman v Superman you can watch just new Justice League the complete four-hour cut of it
and you can hate it it's completely fine but at least it's the movie that he wanted
to make I think it's really bad for comic book movies nowadays when you feel like a director
is being dictated what they're doing they're not they don't have creative control they get
partial creative control and then it's almost like someone steps in it's like no no no no
no you gotta do this this this and this as long as you do this this and this you can
keep going and it just becomes a tonal mess and I it's weird and I'm saying this because
Marvel was always the leg up on DC for like a long time there because they had a formula and I'm not
saying that movies every movie needs a formula but right now it's just like it's so inconsistent
I walk out of a movie and I just kind of go oh okay like I'm like this this was awesome this was
terrible like I really don't know like the last like two or three Marvel movies were like five
out of tens for me because I'm like I like things so much about these but I hate so much about these
so yeah it's it's I think it's changed so much over the years because again you go
into the the time of the 80s and 90s where it was like camping and it really sort of
like really Embrace what a comic book movie was and it wasn't worried about the reality and now
we're kind of with the spectacle we're with the substance and I think it's really and this is
no no criticism because I think Nolan was great Christopher Nolan did such a great job of telling
in such a grounded story that you really felt like this could happen anywhere but in a weird
way it almost like no one knew how to react to it because you only have one Christopher Nolan that's
the thing with him as a filmmaker he has a very unique vision so he can tell a story and I think
a lot of people try to replicate that even with the spectacle and he can't match it because for
him what always came first was yes it's a big big scale movie but he always cared about the
story he always cared about the characters and he picked the right actors to play those characters
again even a smaller comic book movie American Splendor yes so Paul Giamatti as Harvey Pekar or
oh my God yeah he he from when you saw a little bit you heard some of his voice and different
things and and you can go back to Old Letterman interviews and and you felt like that was him he
really like embodied this guy this this guy that was in this tough spot that felt trapped in his
life and and felt like he wasn't going to be able to do anything but be this file clerk yeah that's
a great movie by the way that was that was another one that I saw very early on and I just love that
that film Paul Giamatti speaking of comic book movies remember when he was in that Spider-Man
movie and so underused and never used again yeah it was very bizarre but yeah Paul Giamatti is
still one of the greatest actors working today sure so it sounds like for lack of a better term
if an actor's actor is is the main character is this superhero or whatever anti-hero whatever
then then it works but if it's too surface of a performance it's not gonna yeah that's that's that
really is a great point and a great way of looking at things it's like does the actor fit the role
like do they encompass what this character is and that's why there's always been this
debate about Batman right but like to me Michael Keaton will always be the best Batman because I
literally just felt like he brought himself to the performance just like you can never
tell me that Robert Downey, Jr wasn't like the perfect Iron Man there's just certain
actors that become these characters and I know that they have these different versions of them
the only one that's really weird that like every actor who's kind of Taken on besides Jared Leto
is Joker like Joker for some reason whoever takes on that character brings something unique to it
even going back to Cesar Romano right from like the cheesiness and the over top clowniness of that
he was great as that character then you got Jack Nicholson in the role you got Heath Ledger and
I'm gonna skip over Carolina and go right to Joaquin Phoenix like every one of those were
like so uniquely different and I think with Batman right it's it's kind of like the mystery of like
it but like only Michael Keaton was able to balance the Bruce Wayne and the Batman
where like you watch Robert Pence and his Batman and he's he's good at Batman Bruce Wayne yeah and
I we don't have to talk about George Clooney he's another one we could just go and get out
glance over Val Kilmer was probably again that was more again coming back to the script like
that was a not a great script that he had to work with but he tried and then Christian Bale I feel
like again great Bruce Wayne the Batman he never got the voice down Christian Bale as great of an
actor as he is I just felt like he never got that that voice down and which is why he's always being
made fun of like I'm Batman like everyone always like jokes about that because he just he wasn't
able to fully get it so that's why I always say that Michael Keaton is is his top dog for Batman
how about Margot Kidder Lois Lane she embodied Lois Lane yeah yeah I think so and that's the
the big disconnect right with a lot of people had with oh my God Amy Adams with Lois Lane right like
she didn't really become the character she didn't really get enough depth and enough story she just
kind of like was underdeveloped a character that is so iconic and so well known and loved and
how many Superman TV shows have there been and like all this thing Superman and Lois Lois and
Clark like all this stuff there's been all these stories and that that character really deserves to
have someone really do them Justice on the big screen because I don't know you're right since
going back to the original Superman I don't know if anyone is has ever played that character well
that's interesting because everything Amy Adams does otherwise I haven't seen that
performance so I can't speak to it but I love her and everything yeah else that she does so I
don't know I'll have to actually watch it and see yeah yeah it's not that she's mad in it it's just
that it's a character that's not written well it's it's almost like going into the superhero
conversation it's it's almost like Wonder Woman Wonder Woman 1984. Wonder Woman and Zack Snyder's
Justice League okay so Wonder Woman as a movie up until the last Act is is badass like I don't know
Gal Gadot in that performance is just so great she embodies the role she becomes that character and
she inspired so many young girls I just remember that press day coming out and like how many people
little girls and women were like so empowered by her performance and then you you see her in Zack
Snyder's Justice League and she's she's again she's she's that way and then I don't know what
happened in 1984 like I'm not someone who hates that movie I know a lot of people hate that movie
but she's like she's there and the rest of the movie's failing her she's like doing her her
best to make this stuff work but she's got Pedro Pascal like Hamming it up up to 30 like a 90 I
don't know what he's doing that movie there's like this weird rock story line and then let
alone when the critics got got all over it was there's like subjective rape or some stuff with
rape going on in the movie which like I didn't even like bother paying attention to but like
she did she became because of that and I credit Zack Snyder for that because Zack Snyder took the
chance Patty Patty Jenkins put her in the the first movie that really got her shine
but Zack's Snyder hired her he's the one who saw the potential and and and made her the
character and then Patty Jenkins pushed her to the next level and then in a weird way kind of
pushed threw it down the stairs in the next movie so I don't know and again I don't hate
1984. I just think it's a missed opportunity but I felt so I was thinking about that movie
and I feel so bad for Gal Gadot though because she's sitting there and she's trying so hard at
the end of that movie and she's really pouring her heart and soul into that performance and
she's really great in it but it's just like that script that script it's not good it's not good.