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LAURENCE MORONEY: Welcome to the Google-Plex.
I'm Laurence Moroney.
And I'm here today with Scott Jensen.
SCOTT JENSEN: Hey.
LAURENCE MORONEY: And Scott is the maestro of all things
Internet of Things, and in particular something
called the physical web.
So we're going to get together.
We're going to talk about the physical web.
And I know I'm going to learn a lot, and I hope you do, too.
So Scott, physical web, that's what we're here to talk about.
Tell us all about it.
SCOTT JENSEN: OK.
Well, when people talk about the Internet of Things,
there's so much to it.
There's networking protocols and data standards and so forth.
But we're trying to solve the front-end piece of it, which
is to say you want to walk up to a device and be able to use it.
So there's things like the Nest, or Bluetooth door locks,
or Zipcars.
All these devices today have an app
that you have to install to use.
And that's fine, if you only have two or three devices
in your life.
But if we believe in Moore's Law at all,
there's going to be thousands if not billions of these devices,
a lot of them in public places.
And apps just don't scale.
If you're in the middle of a mall,
you're not going to download an app to talk to a movie poster.
It's just not going to work.
So we're trying to get rid of all of that friction,
so that you can just with a couple of taps
interact with the device that you're standing in front of.
LAURENCE MORONEY: OK.
Now, how does this get rid of that kind of friction?
How is it engineered to do that?
SCOTT JENSEN: Well, the way we're doing it
right now is we're using Bluetooth low energy.
It's a new version of Bluetooth.
It's extremely low power.
It broadcasts a URL in the advertising packet.
And it does it once a second, over and over again.
But it's so low power, it's actually measured in microamps.
It's not even milliamps.
LAURENCE MORONEY: Interesting.
SCOTT JENSEN: So a little tiny coin cell
can last for over a year.
And of course, if you attach it to something
that's plugged into the wall, it's infinite.
But the intention is that you just broadcast the URL
over and over again.
And then your phone, or your tablet, or eventually
your headset could then just scan
for all the URLs in the area around you
and then rank them and let you pick.
But it won't be shout-y.
It won't be in your face.
You will only be able to do it if you ask for it.
You open your phone, pull down the notification manager,
see what's nearby, and then when you tap on it,
it just takes you there.
So it's meant to be you're under control,
and you do it when you're ready.
LAURENCE MORONEY: OK.
Now, is there some way of it being
able to filter out the kind of things
that I'd be interested in and the kind of things
that I'm not?
SCOTT JENSEN: Well, initially what we're trying to do
is to get you to see the thing that you're in front of.
But because we go through a proxy server,
we can kind of do some safe searching
and so make sure we get rid o spam and things like that.
But we also are thinking about having
it have some sense of history, so that the things that you use
more often will rise to the top, or things in your house,
you could actually star so that it would actually
make sure it pops to the top.
So we're experimenting with a lot of different ways
to make sure that if you do see a lot of things,
the things that are important to you show up.
LAURENCE MORONEY: You mentioned you're experimenting
a lot of different ways.
What kind of stuff have you built?
Anything fun or interesting?
SCOTT JENSEN: Well, what I've done right now
is last year I went and on eBay I
bought a vending machine for $250.
LAURENCE MORONEY: A vending machine?
SCOTT JENSEN: And I bought it myself, took it all apart,
and put in a Raspberry Pi, just to simulate
what we could start to do.
And the idea is you walk up to the vending machine.
It's broadcasting the URL.
You then go to the website.
And then, you can use any kind of web payment means
that you want to.
But then when I actually click on the thing that I want,
it just sends a WebSocket message
from the web server to the Raspberry
Pi, which then spins a little relay,
and it just drops the candy.
And the whole thing takes less than 100 milliseconds.
It's kind of cool.
LAURENCE MORONEY: That is pretty cool.
SCOTT JENSEN: And right now, I'm just simulating
just the actual purchase.
But we can do so much more than that.
Because when I actually talked to Coke about this,
they got really excited.
And they were like, wait a second,
we could change the whole experience
and be like, "Welcome back, Scott.
Do you want Diet Dr Pepper?"
So it can remember.
Or "I see that you've bought 10.
Do you want the eleventh one free?"
So it's not just simply about payment.
It's actually about changing the entire experience.
LAURENCE MORONEY: So Scott, what is it that brought you to this?
And what made you think of working with the physical web?
SCOTT JENSEN: I'm actually a UX designer by training.
And I've worked an awful lot with companies
that are trying to both use websites and applications.
And it became really clear that there
was this effort involved with using applications
for thin, lightweight things.
And it became really clear that there's
a UX issue involved about being able to the interaction
as quickly as possible.
LAURENCE MORONEY: Right.
At heart, it's really a user experience of technology.
Right?
SCOTT JENSEN: Well, precisely.
Because the web is this really lovely white box
we call the DOM.
And all these years, but on top of it
we have this little URL bar that hasn't really
changed in 25 years.
It's a DOS prompt on top of the web.
We have to go dub, dub, dub dot cnn dot.
It's like, we haven't changed that in so long.
Why can't the mobile phone browser use the same sensors
that every other app has?
All the physical web is trying to do
is let the browser use the sensors that
are on the phone in itself.
LAURENCE MORONEY: Cool.
So that gives the scenario that you
were talking about earlier on.
If I'm in a shopping mall and I see a movie poster,
that movie poster could be broadcasting the URL.
My phone sees that URL.
And then that URL could give me the trailer
or give me a link to buy tickets or something along those lines.
SCOTT JENSEN: Oh, precisely.
LAURENCE MORONEY: A much better user experience
than me looking at the poster and then
trying to pull out my phone and figure out
how I can learn more about it.
SCOTT JENSEN: Well, and some people
have said, well, wait a second.
We have QR codes.
Why don't those work?
And QR codes tried to solve a problem.
But as we all know, it wasn't very effective,
because no one's going to take out their phone
and focus on one little thing.
And we can do 50 URLs from 50 meters away simultaneously.
It's a totally different idea.
And by making it UX-driven, we're
trying to make it effortless and fast.
And the technology, we initially tried using Bluetooth regular
and realized it wasn't appropriate.
We even tried using Wi-Fi.
It wasn't appropriate.
So we've been trying to do this, until Bluetooth as low energy
came out, that actually made it kind of work.
LAURENCE MORONEY: OK.
Cool.
So you spoke about the URL almost
being like the DOS prompt of the internet,
and this thing's broadcasting URLs.
So does that mean it's just a browser-only technology?
SCOTT JENSEN: Well, the advantage of URLs
is they're so flexible.
So initially having the URL take you to a web pages
is the quickest, lightest way to go.
But it can also deeply get into a native application.
So when I was talking to one company that
wanted to use this, they already have an app.
But they loved the idea that the web browser would now
allow someone to walk up to their device
and use it right away.
And then, once they kind of get hooked,
they can install the app and then get
a different kind of experience.
So URLs cross both boundaries, which is really quite nice.
LAURENCE MORONEY: Cool.
Yeah.
Because, of course, it can describe a web location,
and it could describe context in an application.
SCOTT JENSEN: Well, and also URLs are just
really flexible in cool ways.
Like, I have a temperature sensor,
and the URL can actually add and ampersand t equal 72.
So the URL can dynamically change.
Or if you want to have a URL with an 8-
or 12-digit rotating ID that can't be copied or spoofed
for extra-secure applications.
So the URL provides a lot of levers
that we can pull and grow over time as this changes.
LAURENCE MORONEY: Cool.
So that makes it really flexible.
SCOTT JENSEN: Yes.
Exactly.
LAURENCE MORONEY: Awesome.
Cool.
So now this kind of thing has got
to be open for everybody to be able to build with, right?
Or it doesn't really work.
What's the developer story behind this?
SCOTT JENSEN: Well, because I'm on the Chrome team,
and we're filled with a bunch of goody two shoes
on the Chrome team, we just really
want everything to be open.
And it's a really cool team to be involved with that.
This is completely open source.
So our prototype app is from open source, the proxy server,
the beacon firmware, all of it is wide open
and there to be used.
And we very much want this to be effectively an extension
to the browser.
So we want this to be on every platform, every browser,
everywhere.
And so this is not a Google product.
And I mean, we're most likely going to be implementing it
through Chrome eventually.
But the goal though is to have this be available to everyone.
LAURENCE MORONEY: OK.
So where would the source be?
Or where can developers get started with looking
at the [INAUDIBLE] now?
SCOTT JENSEN: So we have a GitHub.
LAURENCE MORONEY: There is a GitHub.
Perfect.
SCOTT JENSEN: And we have two GitHubs.
We have one for the overall project called
the physical web, which has the application
and the proxy server.
And then, we have a separate one for just the beacon,
which is called the URI beacon, U-R-I beacon.
And the intentions is--
LAURENCE MORONEY: That kind of URI.
SCOTT JENSEN: Yes.
And we're trying to create two different effectively
ecosystems.
We're trying to create an ecosystem of devices
that are broadcasting.
And they're just always broadcasting the URLs.
And that needs to be massively open.
And that's where we're using the Bluetooth low energy standard
and the advertising packet.
And it's just broadcasting those things over and over again.
And then, we have a whole other cloud
of devices that are listening and ranking.
And we hope to be a lot of experimentation.
There is already somebody who has implemented
for Google Glass, for example.
LAURENCE MORONEY: Nice.
SCOTT JENSEN: And someone is trying for Firefox OS
and things like that.
So we've got lots of different groups
that are playing around it.
And they may try different ways of ranking and organizing them.
And that's to be expected, and we hope that happens.
LAURENCE MORONEY: Now, you mentioned on the hardware side
there's Bluetooth low energy.
Is that the only standard?
Or are there others?
SCOTT JENSEN: Well, Bluetooth low energy
is kind of the new black.
Everyone's excited by it.
Everyone's doing that.
But we also have support for MDNS,
which is a Wi-Fi based technology, which
is really handy, so that if you're in your house,
you don't necessarily want your neighbor know you just
bought a 120-inch television.
We actually have ways around that.
We talked about ways, for example,
that your TV could be broadcasting an obfuscated URL.
And then, when you walk up to it and you first buy it,
you could push a button and then it gives you a URL
that you can connect to.
And then, it gives you a cookie, because it's the web.
And then, only you can connect to it.
So that's one way around it.
But MDNS goes through your Wi-Fi network, which
really is much more secure.
And we've even had a German research company, FontHopper,
just go to our GitHub.
And they added UPnP support as well.
LAURENCE MORONEY: Cool.
SCOTT JENSEN: So we're trying to effectively
be the technology of broadcasting URLs.
And we want to have multiple ways in which it can happen.
What I have noticed is that people
love open-source projects as long as you do all the work.
So I think what people are waiting
for is for Google to get behind this and to really push it.
And then, once we get behind it and start going,
then they're going to say, it's open, right.
And I think that's the important part
about this is that we have to kind of make the market.
And we have to kind of get people excited.
But frankly, that's so not a problem.
We already have people chomping at the bit
that we just have to kind of get the ecosystem going.
And so we're really hoping that Microsoft, Firefox OS, even
Apple, will kind of say, hey, we can kind of
get on board with this, too.
LAURENCE MORONEY: Right.
Now, is this something that has to be built into the browser
and that's why you mentioned those companies?
SCOTT JENSEN: Well, building it into the browser
we feel is the best way to do it,
because that way it offers, again, more competition.
So if Chrome did it and Firefox did it and you had them both,
you can pick and choose which way you want to do it.
So we think this is more appropriate at the browser
level than it is at the operating system level.
LAURENCE MORONEY: Makes perfect sense.
Cool.
So everybody, that's it.
We're finished in our chat with Scott for today
on the physical web.
Thanks, Scott, for being here.
SCOTT JENSEN: You're very welcome.
Glad to be here.
LAURENCE MORONEY: I've learned so much
in just these few minutes.
And I hope you have, too.
And be sure to go check out the GitHub on GitHub itself.
You can just search for physical web,
and you'll find everything that Scott has spoken about.
And I believe, Scott, you're constantly on there,
you know, fixing code, answering questions,
and all that kind of thing.
SCOTT JENSEN: That's how we want to engage people
That's the best way to do it.
LAURENCE MORONEY: All right.
So thanks, everybody.
And again, thanks, Scott.
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