>>> EVER SINCE THE WAR IN
UKRAINE BEGAN PROTESTERS AROUND
THE WORLD HAVE CONDEMNED,
DENOUNCED RUSSIA'S ATTACK ON
UKRAINE.
MOST NOTINGLY MANY OF THEM HAVE
BEEN INSIDE RUSSIA HUMAN RIGHTS
GROUP SAYS RUSSIA ARRESTED
NEARLY 15,000 PROTESTERS THERE.
THEY HAVE BEEN ARRESTED FOR
SIGNS SAYING AS LITTLE AS THE
PHRASE TWO WORDS OR IN SOME
CASES EVEN HOLDING UP A BLANK
PIECE OF PAPER.
THE CRACKDOWN IS SO BROAD
THERE'S A VIDEO SHOT BY AN
ACTIVIST NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION
POSTED ONLINE SHOWING
AUTHORITIES DETAIN A WOMAN ABOUT
TO SPEAK OUT IN SUPPORT OF RUSSIA ACTIONS.
>> THOUSANDS OF RUSSIANS BEGAN
TO FLEE THE COUNTRY.
"THE NEW YORK TIMES" CHRONICLED
SOME OF THE STORIES.
ONE 30-YEAR-OLD RUSSIAN THAT
FLED TO TURKEY AFTER BEING
ARRESTED TELLS "NEW YORK TIMES,"
QUOTE, IT WAS LIKE I WAS SEEING
THE SOVIET UNION.
I WAS THINKING THAT THE PEOPLE
WHO LEFT THE SOVIET UNION IN THE
1920s PROBABLY MADE A BETTER
DECISION THAN THOSE THAT STAYED
AND ENDED UP IN THE CAMPS. LET'S BRING IN A CORRESPONDENT
LET'S BRING IN A CORRESPONDENT
ON THAT STORY MOSCOW BUREAU
CHIEF ANTON.
DID YOU LEAVE AND IS THIS WHERE
YOU ARE REPORTING ON RUSSIA FOR
NOW?
>> WE DID UNFORTUNATELY HAVE TO
LEAVE.
"THE TIMES" WERE TOTALLY
COMMITTED TO COVERING RUSSIA AND
WE HOPE TO BE BACK VERY SOON BUT
AS YOU KNOW PUTIN SIGNED A LAW
RECENTLY THAT PUNISHES SO-CALLED
FALSE NEWS ABOUT THE WAR WITH AS
MUCH AS 15 YEARS IN PRISON AND
FALSE NEWS IN THEIR DEFINITION
CAN BE AS SIMPLE AS REFERRING TO
THE WAR AS A WAR AS OPPOSED TO A
SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION WHICH
IS WHAT THE KREMLIN CALLS IT SO
YES.
WE -- OBVIOUSLY THE SECURITY OF
THE STAFF IS MOST IMPORTANT
THING AND WE HAVE TEMPORARILY
PULLED OUR REPORTERS OUT OF
RUSSIA.
>> YOU WROTE ONE OF THE MOST
INSIGHTFUL STORIES ON THE FRONT
PAGE OF "NEW YORK TIMES," AT
LEAST HERE.
I'M NOT SURE WHERE ON THE
INTERNATIONAL VERSION BUT IT WAS
PRESIDENTS WEEKEND HERE AND
ABOUT PUTIN'S STABILITY AND
QUESTIONED HIS STATE OF MIND IN
THE EARLIEST DAYS OF THIS WAR.
AND I WOND EVERYER IF YOU CAN TE
HOW THAT MAY INFLUENCE THE
RUSSIAN PEOPLE ON THE STREET.
DO THEY THINK HE'S ACTING OF
SOUND MIND?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION
BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE
IN RUSSIA IF THEY DIDN'T AGREE
WITH MOST OF WHAT PUTIN DID KIND
OF ASSUMED HE WAS MORE OR LESS
RATIONAL AND PURSUING SORT OF
HIS AGENDA BUT THE END OF THE
DAY NOT DO ANYTHING AS CRAZY AS
ATTACK UKRAINE.
YOU KNOW?
EVEN AS THE U.S. WAS WARNING OF
AN INVASION IN RECENT MONTHS
VERY, VERY FEW PEOPLE IN RUSSIA
EVEN THE EXPERTS BELIEVED IT.
SO GIVEN THAT SHIFT AND GIVEN
WHAT WE SEE NOW PUTIN IS CAPABLE
OF THERE ARE, THERE ARE
CERTAINLY PEOPLE IN RUSSIA THAT
ARE HORRIFIED BY WHAT'S GOING
ON.
>> I WANT TO UNDERSTAND AND MAKE
SURE WE DON'T OVERSIMPLIFY THE
IDEA OF STATE MEDIA AND THE GRIP
ON INFORMATION FLOW.
HERE PEOPLE WATCH WHATEVER THEY
WANT AND DOESN'T KEEP 40% OF THE
PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE
ELECTION WASN'T STOLEN.
WHAT IS THE REAL ACCESS TO REAL
INFORMATION TO THE TRUTH ABOUT
UKRAINE AND CAN THEY GET THE
PICTURES?
CAN THEY FIND OUT WHAT'S
HAPPENING?
GIVE ME EQUATION IS HOW MUCH
THEY CAN'T SEE IT AND HOW MUCH
THEY BELIEVE PUTIN'S VERSION.
>> YEAH.
SO TELEVISION IS OBVIOUSLY STILL
THE MOST POWERFUL MEDIUM IN
TERMS OF GETTING THE NEWS AT
LEAST STILL IN RUSSIAN.
TELEVISION IS COMPLETELY STATE
CONTROLLED.
ESPECIALLY OLDER GENERATIONS
RELYING ON THE TV FOR NEW US
THEY'RE GETTING THE PROPAGANDA
PICTURE OF UKRAINE THAT'S THE
OPPOSITE OF WHAT THE VIEWERS IN
THE U.S. ARE SEEING.
BUT THE INTERNET REMAINS OPENLY
ACCESSIBLE.
RUSSIA IS NOT CHINA.
RUSSIA DOESN'T HAVE A GREAT
FIREWALL KEEPING OUTSIDE
INFORMATION OUT.
SO YOU CAN STILL -- RUSSIA HAS
DURING THE WAR ACTUALLY GONE TO
NEW LENGTHS TO BLOCK INFORMATION
ONLINE AND IN PARTICULAR
INCREDIBLY POPULAR IN RUSSIA,
INCLUDING FOR NEWS AND ACTIVISM.
AND THEY'VE BLOCKED A NUMBER OF
INDEPENDENT NEWS WEBSITES, BUT
THINGS LIKE TELEGRAM, THE SOCIAL
MESSAGING APP, THOSE ARE STILL
ACCESSIBLE, AND SO FOR PEOPLE
WHO ARE ACTUALLY INTERESTED AND,
YOU KNOW, WHO THINK CRITICALLY,
THEY CAN GET THE REAL STORY OF
WHAT'S GOING ON, AND THERE IS A
LOT OF CONTENT AVAILABLE IN THE
RUSSIAN LANGUAGE.
BUT I SHOULD ADD, THOUGH, THINGS
HAVE CHANGED, REALLY CHANGED IN
THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS.
A TON OF RUSSIAN LANGUAGE MEDIA