I don't want his words just to
be alive in someone's mouth.
I want him to be alive in their life.
Welcome to 11 alive uninterrupted,
a special series bringing you in-depth
conversations with influential
thought leaders in Atlanta.
I'm your host, Naima Abdullahi.
We are sitting down today with
Doctor Bernice King, a global thought
leader and CEO of the King Center.
She uses her influential leadership to
forge conversations about civil rights,
social change and activism.
Dr. Bernice King,
thank you so much for joining us today.
Glad to be with you, Naima,
as the city of Atlanta and the nation.
Against this celebrate MLK Day,
what does it look like to you in the
celebration that will help continue
to preserve his legacy and the dream?
I really like this time of the
year because it gives everybody an
opportunity to start the year off right.
You know, in some ways it's a challenge
for us at the King center coming on the
heels of the holiday trying to crank back
up in the middle of planting everything.
But it's great for our nation
because people are thinking about
what things they can adjust.
You know what things that they
can add new into their life,
you know, they're making,
you know, certain New Years,
you know, wishes and etcetera.
And So what better way to start the
year than with Doctor Martin Luther
King Junior and looking at the world
and what ways you as an individual
can make the world a better place.
And in doing that, you know when
we look at MLK day and when we
look at Black History Month,
how can people take that charge
and that initiative to incorporate
it into their everyday lives?
Well, I think that the best way to do
it is to make a commitment that this
is going to be a lifelong commitment.
Yeah. You know, it's not just a moment,
a day, a season, a month. It's not easy.
I can say that because it does
take a certain kind of mindset.
And that's why our theme this year is
cultivating the beloved community mindset,
because we want to really push our world
into this concept of the beloved community.
What we say we're injustice
ceases and love prevails. Umm
in looking at the legacy of your father.
When we look at voting rights,
when we look at civil rights,
when we look at desegregation,
which aspects of his dream
are still a work in progress?
Everything is a work in progress.
You know, the thing that they were
successful with is doing away with,
dejure by law, segregation.
I don't think we'll ever see that again.
Hmm. By practice different, right.
You know, there are many places
de facto are still segregated.
We're still segregated
in our education system.
I mean, many of our school systems are still,
quote, UN quote,
highly concentrated black and very few other.
We still have a lot of
residential segregation by choice.
But also we still have things like
redlining going on where people
are steering people to certain
neighborhoods and zip codes.
According to, you know,
their their race.
So we still have to figure out how
to deal with the implicit and the
explicit biases that people have.
Now as we talk about the dream,
you know, that unfulfilled dream and the
progress that's still left to be done.
I feel like it's something that
should also be highlighted.
There is a quote that your father
said that really stuck out to me.
We choose our motto to
save the Soul of America.
What comes to mind?
As you really think about that and how
we can measure the condition that the
soul is currently in in this generation,
well, you know, unfortunately
we've gotten to a place where.
The, the, the, the value of
people has become less and less.
You know Daddy talked about in
1967 and where do we go from here?
His book We must rapidly begin to
shift from a thing oriented society
to a person centered society.
And I think there's a lot of focus
on stuff and things and not a lot
of value for the the human being.
So that's why you see a lot
of taking of life.
Some of it yes can be attributed to
some of the economic conditions.
People expressing out of
you know those situations,
but it's also a devaluing, you know, of life.
And understanding the importance
of putting people at center,
that's the sole part of our nation
is how do we get to a place where.
Humanity is front and center.
Hmm. You know the needs.
Of individuals is a priority,
you know,
why don't people have livable wages?
Why is homelessness out of
control in this nation?
Because we have become too materialistic.
And that's the part of the soul that
I think is is struggling in in this
nation that we have to deal with.
Doctor
King's Impact was heavily
influenced by women,
not only the women in his life,
but also the women of the movement.
Let's really give them their flowers.
Your mother played a huge impact in
the civil rights movement as well.
Let's talk about how she helped
carry that torch and how she
really got to work after he passed
away in preserving that legacy.
Yeah, and what people should know
is that it started before she met
Martin Luther King Junior. Hmm.
We are launching a digital exhibit called.
It's a timeline. And the Zia Coretta,
because it's a tribute to her legacy
in becoming the architect of the King
legacy and it starts with her early
life and see how she developed as a
person to even get to a place where she
was able to carry forward like she did
2 1/2 months after the assassination.
It was all a part of her purpose
in life that was unfolding.
And I tell people all the time when he
was assassinated he was one of the most.
Hated persons in America?
Hmm. But then now, today,
he's one of the most loved persons
in the world. Now,
most people say that's because he's dead.
They don't have to deal with
them and all that kind of stuff.
I agree with that.
But I also say the only reason that
Doctor King is the icon that he is
today is because of Coretta Scott King.
Were there other people? Yes.
Family members, you know,
friends, other members,
other individuals that work
with him in the movement.
But the consistent factor through it all.
Was the systematic and diligent
work of Coretta Scott King.
She was very strategic in
insuring that there was kind of an
institutionalization of the legacy
beyond establishing the King Center,
but even building up interest in
this movement to the point that
people now refer to it when they are,
you know,
launching movements and and dealing
with issues around the world.
Everybody looks to it.
And that's her work when she wrote
her book My Life with.
And King junior,
her tour didn't start in the
United States of America because
that's where the movement happened.
The tour started around the world.
So she was thinking global because
when he got the Nobel Peace Prize,
it was like, OK,
let's start out there and come in.
And that's why his legacy,
even in the world community, is still very.
And shrieking to people more so than
here in the United States of America.
What comes to mind is how you're always
working hard to preserve the authenticity
of his dream and what he stood for.
As we, you know, look at his writing
and his speeches and how it has changed
the nation and the entire world.
Let's really talk about how sometimes
his quotes and his speeches have.
Some moments been misused.
So what message do you have for people
in preserving the authenticity of his
words and what they actually meant?
Well, I think #1 there's always
gonna be missing. Interpretation.
There's always gonna be misappropriation.
I mean, as a Christian that
happens with the Bible.
So I don't expect anything different
with my father, I think was what's
important is those of us like myself,
the King Center, and those who you know,
have truly studied my father's legacy.
That we continue to keep the
authentic king out there,
that we don't miss a beat.
That's why, you know,
when certain things are said
across social media.
There's a response.
I can't respond to everything right,
and you certainly can't go
back and forth in an argument,
but there are enough people out there you
don't want to give that hate a place, right?
Exactly.
But there are enough people
out there that still on the on
the fence or don't understand.
So that's why you can't just be silent.
I think it's important to do that.
But also what's more important is that
we have to begin to embody Doctor King.
You know, we talk a lot here in
Atlanta about the beloved community,
but I'm not sure we are practicing
or living the beloved community.
So it's more than just the
words of Doctor King.
It's how do we make those words become flesh,
you know, in our city and across our nation,
you know, so many people can talk about,
my father would always say,
but did you do it in the
spirit of Doctor King?
Because if it's not done in
the spirit of Doctor King,
then, you know, you're just,
you know, spouting out words.
As far as I'm concerned,
I don't want his words just to
be alive in someone's mouth.
I wanted to be alive in their life.
What can we do in that beloved community
to make sure that what he stood for
and the dream is never watered down?
You need to really study nonviolence.
So I always encourage people to
go to kingcenter.org, because in
order to really carry out his work,
you have to understand what that work was.
And how he carried out more importantly,
it wasn't just the fact that he voiced,
you know, his, his disagreement with
or issue with injustices is the fact
that he used a certain approach and
how to address those injustices.
And that's what we're lacking today.
We are lacking the right strategy and
approach and spirit and heart to dismantle
a lot of these injustices and inequities.
Words matter and how we use words also matter
and I know sometimes like you've spoken out.
On Twitter, where someone on Twitter may say,
or a company, or a corporation may say
he died for or he sacrificed his life
and you're always reminding them no.
If we pay attention to words,
we can acknowledge history and what happened.
That he was murdered,
that he was assassinated. Yeah.
How important is it to make sure that
we don't water down what happened to
him and that we push forward with the
dream that still lives on to this day?
Right. You know, I think the the truth
is always important in a movement. And.
You know, if if we do water it down,
then we'll get the cheapest version of Doctor
King which will not benefit any of us.
And so I again, I think it's important
that those of us who know the authentic,
the radical. The the whole,
as we say in a comprehensive king.
Yes, that we keep that before the public.
You know, there was a season with the only
thing people knew was I have a dream.
I don't know if you remember that.
It was like everything that I have every day.
And no, there was more to Doctor
King than I have a dream.
Let's look at what he said
about war and militarism.
Let's look at what he said about
materialism and poverty. You know,
let's look at what he said about racism.
Let's look at what he said
about political ideology.
It's very dangerous.
Hmm. And it's it's there.
So the beauty is we have all of his words,
some on display.
We have an institution that my mother created
as the official living memorial to the life,
work and legacy.
And so we're just going to continue
to do the work that we're doing,
keeping that off,
because the authentic left us a blueprint
as we look at the beloved community,
how far it has come. What can this
young generation do to contribute
to it in helping it go forward,
learn and extract?
From the those that have come before us,
it's very important you know,
none of us. Is self-made as much
as some people want to believe.
You know, I did it.
You know, I did it my way.
Yes, I get that.
Yeah, yeah.
But at the end of the day,
we're all standing on the
shoulders of giants that have
come before us and the things we
can extract and learn from them.
What can the history books do to honor?
Alberta King, Coretta Scott King,
and you know the women of the
movement from Diane Nash,
Ella Baker, Rosa Parks,
Fannie Lou Hammer, Septima Clark,
Bernice Robinson. The list.
The list can go on and on.
Oftentimes it's the women, you know,
who aren't really given their flowers
and how much change they helped create.
Like what can society do in
honoring the women of the movement?
Well, I think is what you just did.
It starts with recognizing it,
acknowledging it and and
creating a space for it.
Yeah, we're creating a space at the
King Center soon that's going to be
called women's soul of the nation,
so that when people come, they will see
what these incredible women have done.
We, as women in particular,
have to insist on this and do it
in our own circles of influence.
But there are times when we have
to find ways to coordinate and
collaborate together to make a larger.
Impact and impression and I
think we're at that season.
We're in a window now,
you know where people are paying attention,
right and.
Young people in particular and many
of them want to know more right
about who has has contributed,
you know,
to our world and to our nation and how.
And So what can we do again
collectively that has a larger
impact for this next generation.
Because I think it will give them,
you know,
the confidence and the guidance
that they need because I think
that's very important that we
missed very intelligent generation.
But still needs some guidance as to
how these women and men, you know,
were able to tackle so many difficult,
challenging, painful,
oppressive, exploitative.
And damaging situation and still
remained hopeful and hopeful.
Yeah. No. This young
generation has a lot of heart.
They may not have all the tools,
yes, but they have the drive to get.
They do have the drive.
And I appreciate that.
Yeah, absolutely.
As we look at those who put
their minds and body and soul on
the line for change to happen,
let's talk about the black Mecca and
how it really laid the groundwork for
the rest of the nation to catch on.
What influence can Atlanta continue to have,
not only as a black Mecca?
That has been in a place and
in a certain time period,
but the epicenter and continue
being the epicenter for change.
My suggestion is if we're
gonna keep the Mecca. Hmm.
And and and protected from
from being destroyed,
then we're gonna have to do some
serious not just collaborating,
but coordinating together,
collaboration,
coordination over competition. Yes.
And kind of having that streamline
as we wrap up this conversation,
I want to ask you as a thought leader,
as a global thought leader,
as CEO of the King Center,
what keeps you going when times get hard?
Because your
job is no, it's not. But you know what?
I had the benefit of watching my
mother go through so many seasons, OK?
Of difficulty and challenges.
I know about things the
public didn't know right,
but I saw her hold her head up.
I saw her pray.
I saw her let love lead her and seasons
where she could have, you know,
been filled with vengefulness and and
payback because things have happened
in this city that were very hurtful
to her as a person. But she didn't.
She didn't let that stop her.
She kept going.
I look at our ancestors and
this is across the board.
Culturally,
we can look at all of our ancestors and
see what they came through to get us
here today and know that we are made of them,
we come from them.
And if they could overcome,
that's why we sing.
We shall overcome because they overcame,
so we too can overcome
because we we come from them.
And then finally, the thing that
my mother used to always say to me,
she said, baby, the darkest.
Always, always before the dawn.
And when she was reminding me is, yeah,
it's dark, but dawn is coming now.
You don't sit back and wait for it.
We gotta kind of usher it and push it.
Yeah, and keep doing the work.
But if you don't stop and you keep moving,
it's going to break.
Some kind of breakthrough.
That's good is going to happen.
It may not be all that you want it to be,
but they did.
In Montgomery wasn't everything.
If there was no Civil Rights
Act that came from that,
there was no Voting Rights
Act that came from that.
But it was a a big start and it boosted.
People's morale to a place that
they were willing to make an even
greater sacrifice, you know,
to get us to those other things where
we would have the Civil Rights Act,
Voting Rights Act and Fair Housing Act.
So that's what gives me hope.
I mean, it gets bad sometimes.
I'm like scratching my head, like,
how are we going to get out of this?
I said, I don't know how.
But we as a humanity have
gotten out of a lot of stuff.
Going out of life, yeah.
Doesn't mean that we're not going
to lose people in the process.
That's inevitable.
Invariable.
As you get older,
you begin to accept there's certain things
in life you can't do anything about.
That's why the Serenity prayer helps.
You know,
God grant me the serenity to
accept the things I cannot change.
And give me the courage to
change the things I can and the
wisdom to know the difference.
There's some things we can't change.
Don't waste your energy there,
because that's where you get.
Fascinated.
But God give me the energy and the
strength and the and the connections too,
so that we can work together
to change those things
that we have the power to change.
That is so powerful.
I'm hoping that someone who's
watching this right now can be just as
inspired as I am just hearing you talk
about the things that she told you,
the things that you know has
been passed down to you.
Thank you so much for the time that
you have created for this conversation
as we deep dive into the impact,
what MLK day means, but nationally,
what continuing to fulfill that
dream means for each one of us.
So we appreciate your time.
As we shine a light on Doctor
King's legacy and the efforts that
we'll continue from this day on,
and to our viewers,
thank you for joining us right
here on 11 alive, uninterrupted.