[APPLAUSE]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Welcome back to the show.
We all know that fake news has been
a problem ever since our president first invented it.
But the good news is Congress is fighting back.
Unfortunately, some people are conscientious objectors.
Congress has given the State Department $80 million
to combat Russian propaganda and disinformation.
But Secretary of State Rex Tillerson
reportedly is reluctant to use that.
Now I do want that guy to take an IQ test.
So is there any hope in combating fake news?
Amy Hoggart traveled to a winter wonderland to find out.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
AMY HOGGART: Nobody knows when the infection began.
Russian disinformation attacks.
- Fake news. - Fake news.
Fake news.
It is invading countries.
A dangerous epidemic.
Not just in the United States, but in France, in England,
in Germany, they are trying to undermine
democracy around the world.
AMY HOGGART: And our leaders were blind--
DONALD TRUMP: Russia is fake news.
AMY HOGGART: --or possibly stupid.
But there was rumor of one country that wasn't, Finland.
So I left America and went in search of someone with answers.
Hello?
Hello.
Hello?
Hello!
Hello.
Oh, hi.
I found the man tasked with fighting disinformation,
Markku Mantilla.
We have trolls.
We have fake news.
We have RT, the Russians would like to sew
some confusion in Finland.
But the Finns do not buy false news.
They just don't believe it at all?
That's right, yes.
AMY HOGGART: They were immune, but how did they do it?
First, a quick explainer for Americans.
Finland is a country in Europe.
No, up here.
Europe is a continent in the world.
You are also in the world.
I can tell I'm losing you.
The point is, Russia likes to imagine that they're Europe's
dick-swinging judo man.
So they use fake news to spread chaos in Finland.
About six or seven years ago, we started to see stories
in the Russian media saying that we take Russian kids
into custody or we kidnap them and then they are
sold to gay couples in the USA.
I would definitely click on that story.
But the stories of that kind were rubbish.
Oh.
And these stories are spread by a Finn, Mr. Backman.
AMY HOGGART: So is he like your patient zero?
Yes, he spreads false stories in Russia
and also here in Finland.
Johan Backman is a propagandist.
And when he's not chilling with war criminals,
he gets paid to lie for Russia.
In Finland we have an industry that
is concentrated on the kind of for trade with children.
AMY HOGGART: I managed to secure a meeting with the infamous--
what are you?
I'm a Finnish social scientist and human rights activist.
I'm Amy.
I'm a civil rights leader and a supermodel.
We're just making this up, aren't we?
No, I don't think so.
Are you a troll?
No.
Do I look like one?
Yeah.
We don't trust Russia.
The Finnish social services have taken children
from Russian families--
AMY HOGGART: I left to avoid infection.
Because Backman's lies spread quickly through junk sites
and state TV. - Finland, stop kidnapping.
Finland, stop kidnapping.
Mommy?
AMY HOGGART: Then, Russia followed
up with lies about immigrants.
Finnish cities will be surrounded
by a ring of burning ghettos.
AMY HOGGART: And that lesser known Johnny Cash song
took off in Finland leading to protests and attacks
on refugees.
But rather than fire their own immune system like us,
Finland actually found a solution.
We needed to do something about it.
And we hired the best experts to help us to counter the problem.
- From America? - Yes.
Are you taking the piss?
I was just there.
So I left Finland and found my way back to America--
Ahh!
--where I went to MIT to meet one of these experts, Adam
Berinsky.
I study information, misinformation, rumors,
and conspiracy theories.
The Finns had heard about my research
and they wanted to meet with me. So--
You've been talking to the American government about this
too, yeah?
No, no one from government has approached me.
(WHISPERING) For fuck's sake.
So with no work here, Adam and his colleagues
traveled to Finland to teach them the cure--
It's not really a cure.
AMY HOGGART: --a proven solution--
I wouldn't say that.
AMY HOGGART: --the way to make it better?
I can tell you how to not make things worse.
AMY HOGGART: Good enough.
One thing I've found is that if you repeat
a lie in the course of trying to correct it,
you could make the lie spread further.
So saying something like we have
to stop this rumor that Adam Berinsky is a virgin
can have the opposite effect.
Right.
I've heard this thing before, feels familiar, must be true.
The trick is to get lies before they start.
So we trained over 100 members of the Finnish government
about educating, not just the public,
but political figures as well.
AMY HOGGART: So I flew back to Finland
to learn how this education thing could actually work.
An important step was our president
spoke against disinformation.
And he warned us that, whatever you find on the web,
be critical.
So step one for America is get a new president.
And also we give lessons to students,
how to avoid fake news.
In Finnish schools?
Mhm, how to be critical, how to read news.
Do you guys think that you're better than us?
Yes, so basically what you need is good schools--
OK, no.
--good president--
- That's not going to happen. - --democracy--
You're getting colder.
--and good press.
We're a lot more f--
[BLEEP] than I realized.
Was this all hopeless?
Was Finland just a cruel paradise with no real answers--
Amy, hello.
Oh my god, I think I know you.
Yes, we met in Trump rally in Iowa last September.
AMY HOGGART: He's not making this up.
I really met Ilpo last year.
I know, he's not Borat.
We checked.
My name is Ilpo Michael.
My English is more like American English, like in Grand Canyon.
Oh.
So Donald Trump will be good president.
He has good heart.
I can't believe you're a genuine Finnish person.
I thought I'd just dreamt you up.
Oh.
So Ilpo, are you aware of the problem with fake news
and disinformation?
We know fake news.
They are everywhere.
But we don't fall for fake news.
Let me get this straight.
You love Donald Trump.
Yes.
Yet, you still acknowledge Russian influence
and disinformation.
Yes.
So it's possible for both things to exist at once?
Of course. [MUSIC PLAYING]
Hallelujah!
AMY HOGGART: My god, he's the cure.
Can I take you back to America with me?
I love to do that.
We just need like a vial of your blood
to immunize the others.
I understand only 50% what you mean, but it sounds good.
Why not?
AMY HOGGART: Now this seems much easier than education.
That's real news, not fake news.
SAMANTHA BEE: We'll be right back.
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