JOSH: WELCOME BACK.
OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL SERIES IN
TELEVISION HISTORY, BUT HIS DAYS
AS A "M A S H" SURGEON, B.J.
MIKE FARRELL IS TAKING A LEADING
ROLE IN THE DEBATE AGAINST THE
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
THIS?
MR. FARRELL: IN THE DEATH
PENALTY ISSUE?
THE SUPREME COURT REINSTATED THE
DEATH PENALTY IN 1976 AFTER A
FOUR-YEAR HIATUS.
A MINISTER FROM NASHVILLE
CONTACTED ME AND SAID WE WOULD
HAVE A BLOODBATH IN THIS COUNTRY
AND NEEDED HELP.
SO I WENT DOWN WITH HIM.
IT STARTED WHAT HAS BEEN A LONG
ROAD TO ABOLITION OF THE DEATH
PENALTY, WHICH I THINK WILL COME
TO US NOT TOO FAR AWAY IN THE
DISTANT FUTURE.
JOSH: NO ONE HAS BEEN PUT TO
DECADES.
WHAT IS THE PUSHBACK YOU ARE
ARE MAKING?
MR. FARRELL: THE CASE I AM
MAKING IS THE DEATH PENALTY DOES
US HARM AS A SOCIETY.
PEOPLE HOW TOUGH WE ARE ON
CRIME, WE HAVE TO DO EYE FOR AN
EYE.
THAT IS THE USUAL THING.
WHAT IT IS MOSTLY JUST PEOPLE
ARE FRIGHTENED.
AND POLITICIANS KEEP TELLING
PEOPLE THEY SHOULD BE
FRIGHTENED.
THAT KEEPS US ON TENTERHOOKS
DO.
BUT IT IS FAIRLY CLEAR TO ME,
AND I THINK CLEAR TO ANYBODY WHO
THINKS ABOUT IT, THAT WE HAVE AN
ISSUE THAT IS RACIST IN
APPLICATION AND IS USED AGAINST
DEFENDED.
IT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY, AND IT
TRAPS AND KILLS INNOCENT PEOPLE.
I DO NOT THINK WE REALLY -- WE
ARE THE LAST MAJOR DEVELOPED
NATION IN THE WORLD THAT
PENALTY.
JOSH: ARE YOU MORE CONCERNED
BEHIND THE DEATH PENALTY,
WHETHER RIGHT OR WRONG, OR JUST
OR BOTH?
MR. FARRELL: I THINK IT IS
I THINK IT DOES US HARM.
AS FAR BACK AS THE FOUNDERS OF
THIS NATION, BENJAMIN RUSH -- HE
STARTED THE PENNSYLVANIA PRISON
SOCIETY, A PSYCHIATRIST AND
WONDERFUL MAN, AND HE SAYS THE
DEATH PENALTY DEHUMANIZES
KILLS.
WHEN YOU HAVE A SYSTEM THAT
TRAPS AND KILLS INNOCENT PEOPLE,
YOU DO GREAT HARM.
AND OUR COUNTRY, WHO HAVE BEEN
TRIED, CONVICTED, SENTENCED TO
SOMETIMES, WAITING FOR THIS
FOUND INNOCENT AND FREED.
THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE
SYSTEM THAT GETS SO INVOLVED
WITH POLITICS, WHERE
POLITICIANS, WHO WANT TO ENHANCE
SHOW HOW TOUGH THEY ARE ON
CRIME, THEY BEGIN TO LOOK
ASKANCE AT WHAT THE FACTS ARE
AND ALLOW THEMSELVES TO BE LED
ATTITUDE RATHER THAN LOOKING FOR
JUSTICE.
IT SEEMS TO ME THOSE OF US WHO
CARE ABOUT JUSTICE REALLY WANT
TO SEE JUSTICE DONE, NOT JUST
KILLING.
JOSH: IN YOUR EFFORT TO MAKE
CHANGE, IS IT AT MORE OF THE
THIS CURRENT ADMINISTRATION,
WHERE THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT
THINGS LIKE TORTURE AND
GUANTANAMO BAY?
DOES IT HAVE TO BE AT THE STATE
LEVEL?
MR. FARRELL: WE HAVE A HISTORY
IN THIS COUNTRY OF ITS ENOUGH
SUPREME COURT SAYS THE BODY
STATEMENT.
THAT HAS HAPPENED IN TERMS OF
EXECUTING CHILDREN, FOR ANYONE
UNDER 18 AT THE TIME OF A MURDER
, IS NO LONGER HELD LIABLE FOR
THE DEATH PENALTY, BECAUSE OF
THE FACT THAT SO MANY STATES
RESPONSIBLE, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT
FURTHER ENOUGH TO FULLY
UNDERSTAND THE CONSEQUENCE OF
THEIR ACTIONS.
THE SAME IS TRUE WITH MENTALLY
DEFICIENT PEOPLE.
LITTLE BY LITTLE, WE ARE
BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND IT DOES
NOT MAKE SENSE.
THIS ENOUGH?
THERE ARE SO MANY ISSUES AT THE
PENALTY HAS BEEN RIGHT THERE
THE SOCIAL ISSUES.
DISTRACTIONS RIGHT NOW.
OUR PEOPLE LISTENING?
MR. FARRELL: -- ARE PEOPLE
LISTENING?
MR. FARRELL: THAT IS A QUESTION.
I FIND PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO
LISTEN.
TODAY, THE GALLUP POLL SAYS FOR
THE FIRST TIME, THE SUPPORT OF
THE DEATH PENALTY FALLS BELOW
OPPOSITION TO IT.
SO WHEN YOU SEE BOTCHED
EXECUTIONS, SEE INNOCENT PEOPLE
BEING RELEASED ON DEATH ROW, SEE
ALL OF THESE THINGS HAPPENING,
THE RACIAL ASPECT AND ALL OF
THESE THINGS.
AND PARTICULATE TODAY, THE COST.
IT IS HIDEOUSLY EXPENSIVE.
JOSH: THIS MUST BE A DIFFICULT
ARGUMENT TO MAKE, AT TIMES PD
HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE VICTIMS'
-- AT TIMES.
YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE
VICTIMS' FAMILIES.
MR. FARRELL: VICTIMS' FAMILIES
GO BOTH WAYS.
SOME FEEL THE NEED FOR
VENGEANCE, AND OTHERS FEEL THAT,
IN THE NAME OF THEIR LOVED ONE,
THEY SHOULD NOT BE COMMITTING
ANOTHER MURDER -- WHICH IS WHAT
THE STATE DOES WHEN IT
EXECUTES SOMEONE.
SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE JUST
GRIEVOUSLY INJURED AND ANGERED
AND WANT TO STRIKE OUT.
YOU CANNOT SAY THEY ARE WRONG
FOR FEELING THAT WAY.
I JUST SAY ULTIMATELY, IN TERMS
OF A SOCIAL RESPONSE TO
IS RIGHT.
BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF
PEOPLE WHO KNOW YOU FROM YOUR
WORK ON "M A S H," ONE OF THE
BEST AND LONGEST-RUNNING SHOWS
EVER, IS THIS A FULL-TIME JOB
FOR YOU?
FORMER CAREER?
IN THINGS THAT ARE INTERESTING.
I DID A SERIES ON THE SUNDANCE
AND I DO A PLAY.
ANOTHER ISSUE I AM CONCERNED
ABOUT IS THE AND BUY MEDS DO A
PLAY ABOUT THE DISCOVERER OF THE
I DO A PLAY ABOUT THE DISCOVERER