- Hi everyone, I'm attorney Aden Durham
with 180 Law Co. in Denver, Colorado
and welcome back to, "All Up In Yo' Business."
(bright music)
In this episode of, "All Up In Yo' Business,"
I'm gonna talk about trademarks and copyrights
and especially what they mean
when it comes to a logo for your business.
But first let's address the fact
that there are things look a little different around here.
That's right, there are some changes going on
behind the scenes at, "All Up In Yo' Business."
I have relocated to beautiful, sunny San Diego
back to my hometown.
So, bear with me as things
might be changing in the background
while I'm still unpacking and getting stuff organized
and figuring out where things are gonna go.
You might also be wondering,
what's going on with this girl's hair?
Well, for those of you who have wavy, frizzy hair,
you'll understand that if you live in a place
with even a touch of humidity,
just straightening doesn't work.
So, I'm embracing it and this is what I look like now.
So, we're all just gonna have to get used to it.
Alright, and last thing, before we get into it,
be sure to like, subscribe and share
and at check the description for more information
and additional resources and stuff too.
Alright, so, in my last video,
I talked to you guys about some things
that people commonly think are trademarks
but that are not actually trademarks.
And in that video, I mentioned really briefly that,
sometimes something can be both
protected by trademarks and by copyright law.
And most commonly, this applies to logos
or other kinds of designs
that are used for businesses.
And this, of course, raised a lot more questions
from you guys about,
should I worry about copyright protection for my logo
or should I be copywriting my logo
or should I get it trademarked?
And some just more questions coming up
about how trademarks and copyrights work together,
specifically when it comes to logo designs
that are used in a business.
So that's what we are going to dive into today
specifically, should you worry about
a copyright, a trademark or both,
when it comes to your business's logo?
So little quick background
for those of you who may not already be familiar,
a trademark, trademark law protects words,
phrases, logos designs, symbols
that are used by a business
to indicate the source of their goods or services.
Basically it prevents your competitors
from using your trademark on the same
or similar types of goods or services.
A copyright on the other hand,
protects creative and artistic expressions
and copyright prevents anybody
aside from the copyright holder
from using or distributing the copyrighted work.
And so it's not completely uncommon
for a logo to be protected
under both trademark law and copyright law
because a logo can be used
as a source indicator for a business.
That's how commonly a logo is used
but a logo can also be considered a work of art
or a work of creative expression.
So a logo or some kind of a design
that's used for a business can fall into both
trademark and copyright categories
but that's not always the case.
In order to be protectable under copyrights,
the logo has to have some creative
or artistic element to it.
It can't just be stylized wording or stylized text
or just common shapes or symbols.
It must possess at least
some minimal degree of creativity.
Now, what does that minimal degree of creativity mean?
There is no real answer.
I can't tell you what
that degree of minimal creativity has to be
but it has to exist.
Essentially, it's like,
we'll know it when it's there,
we'll know it when it's not there.
And when we don't know
is when these questions go into the legal process
and that's how we decide,
this thing did have some creative expression
or enough artistic element to it
versus this thing didn't.
But for the most part,
the thing that you wanna remember
when it comes to copyrights is that,
familiar designs, common patterns,
familiar symbols and shapes
and then just designs and typography
or font or text those things,
aren't going to be enough of a creativity
or an artistic element to qualify under copyright.
So, let's take my 180 Law Co. logo for example,
this logo is a trademark because I use it as one,
it's a symbol and some words and a design
that when I use it, I'm using it
as a way to indicate to the consuming public
that this logo means you're working with me,
when you see this logo,
that means you're dealing with me.
So it's a trademark but it's not just words,
it's got this little circle to it
and a little bit of design element to it
but it's not a copyright,
it's not protected under copyright.
It's really just a circle,
kind of a half circle with some dots
and the 180 in it and some extra words.
So, while there is some design and creativity to it,
it's nothing unique,
it's not an artistic expression.
I'm just taking commonly used shapes
and make them into something thing
that is a trademark for me.
So, in this case, my logo
doesn't really qualify under copyright protection
but it is eligible for trademark protection.
For the record, I don't have a registered trademark
for my company's logo.
It's, frankly, it's not that important to me.
Again, it's just the name and a semicircle and stuff.
So, you don't have to register every trademark,
I do of course have 180 Law Co. the name trademarked
but anyway, so, all of this to show you guys like,
eh, this isn't really a copyright,
but it is a trademark.
But then on the other hand,
let's look at this very popular
well-known Starbucks logo.
Again, of course, this is a trademark.
We see this logo on a cup or on a bag of coffee
or on the side of the building
and we know this product or this service,
this thing is coming from
this company that we recognize as Starbucks.
So, it's clearly a trademark
but it's also protected under copyright law.
Try a Starbucks does actually have a registered copyright
in this symbol, in this design too,
primarily because of that, the mermaid girl,
if it wasn't for her,
this wouldn't be a creative work.
It wouldn't be eligible for a copyright.
Just the words themselves, the Starbucks,
around the logo that doesn't do much for copyright
but the girl, the image herself,
that in itself, it has enough degree of creativity
that it in itself is considered a work of art, essentially.
So, Starbucks has a trademark
but they also have a copyright for the same symbol.
But again, remember the trademark and the copyright,
they do very different things.
So whereas the trademark goes,
they have a trademark for the logo obviously
but they also have a trademark for Starbucks,
just the name on its own
because they wanna protect that too.
Whereas this copyright for the logo,
even though the copyright might include
the name Starbucks in it,
the copyright's not really
protecting the Starbucks name.
It's not protecting the Starbucks brand
in the same way that a trademark does.
So why does all this matter?
Again, trademarks and copyrights
serve very different functions
and they do very different things.
Trademark protection, for the most part,
it only extends to the goods and services
that are registered,
the it was in services on the trademark application.
That's why we can have things like
Ace Hardware and Ace Bandages.
Ace Hardware has a trademark for Ace Hardware.
Ace Bandages has a trademark for Ace Bandages.
They coexist even though they are
essentially the same name
because they're completely different
and unrelated goods and services.
So, the trademark for the most part only extends to
the goods and services with which it's registered.
Copyright protection on the other hand
gives the copyright holder, the owner,
the exclusive right to distribute,
reproduce, reuse, copy the work at all, in itself.
So it is, it doesn't mean you have anything
to do with products or services that it's used on.
It's a copyright in and of the work of art itself
and protects it against
any kind of unauthorized or licensed to use.
So, that's why companies
will have both trademark registrations
and copyright registrations over the same thing
because they want to protect it in different ways.
And also you get different rights
with trademark and copyright protection,
different kinds of damages,
different things that you're entitled to
if you're involved in a lawsuit
for trademark or copyright infringement,
the rights differ
and your options and damages are different.
So, again, you, it is possible to sue somebody
for both trademark and copyright infringement
over the same thing
and get two very different kinds of damages out of it.
So, it can be very beneficial to do both.
So, when it comes to those of you who are wondering,
should I trademark my logo
or should I copyright my logo?
The, first of all,
you need to think of how you're gonna be using it.
Are you using it as a trademark?
Then probably you wanna focus
on the trademark registration.
If you're not sure if you're using it as a trademark,
check back to my last video of, that's not a trademark.
And I go into a little bit of detail
about how you have to use something
as a trademark in order for it to be a trademark.
But so if you're gonna use it as a trademark,
then that's usually where you wanna start
because that's the priority
and then if it qualifies as a copyright,
then my wanna explore that too.
If you're not using it as a trademark,
if it's really just a design
but if it has that sufficient artistic
or creative element to it,
then the copyright registration,
copyright protection would be more appropriate
because a trademark wouldn't apply
because it's not a trademark.
But if you really are in a situation
where your logo does count
as a trademark and a copyright,
then it can be beneficial to register both
and take full advantage of the intellectual property rights
and options that are available to you.
So in terms of how you do this,
again, very different things,
very different processes to go through.
So, a trademark in the United States
is registered with the United States
patent and trademark office,
that's at uspto.gov.
A copyright on the other hand,
in the US is registered
with the United States copyright office
and that's, I think copyright.gov.
The application processes are very different,
again, with a trademark,
we need to show that we're using it in trade,
that we're using it in commerce.
It has to be used as a trademark
and we have to provide that information
with the application.
We have to say,
what kinds of goods and services
is being used in connection with,
whereas the copyright application,
it focuses much more on the details
of the work itself
because that's what the copyright
is protecting, is the work itself.
So you don't have to necessarily
give proof of how you're using the copyright.
It's just much more question about the work itself
and the process is a bit faster.
And, typically it's gonna be less expensive
to do a copyright registration.
The filing fees are much less
compared to a trademark registration.
But again, don't just focus on the cost,
just 'cause a copyright is gonna be cheaper
doesn't mean it's gonna do you any good.
If what you really need is trademark protection,
then registering a copyright,
ill, know okay, it'll hurt it.
It might help but
it's not going to give you any trademark protection.
So really if you're unsure
of whether you should focus on a trademark or copyright,
talk to an intellectual property attorney,
talk to an attorney who's familiar
with trademark and copyright registrations
to determine what the best option for you is.
That's all for this episode folks,
drop a comment below and lemme know what you think.
And, of course, I am happy to help
if any of you are looking for assistance
with trademark or copyright registration.
My contact information is in the description
and you can learn more about
my all inclusive trademark registration package,
called Brand Bombshell,
where I take care of
literally every step of the process for you
or if you're on a tighter budget
and looking for more of a, a budget friendly option,
you can check out Brandish,
which is my online at D-I-Y trademark application course.
So again, links to both of those
are in the description below.
Thank you all, so much for watching.
I'm Aden Durham and I'll see you next time.
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