MZ: Cardinal Wuerl you began your seminary studies in 1958, the year that Pope John XXIII
was elected. What do you remember most about him?
CW: I think the impression that I will always carry with me was his smile and the joviality.
Now remember, this is following on Pius XII, and all the pictures that I had of him as
a youngster, all the pictures I had of Pius XII, were, he was a very prayerful and very,
very serene personality and then along comes this wonderful, smiling, laughing Pope. But
in the long haul, the great and enduring memory, of course, is the council.
MZ: That's what I wanted to ask you about. What is his most important legacy for our
Church and for our world?
CW: In all the life of the Church, there have not been that many Church councils. And for
good reason. A Church council brings together bishops from all over the world to address
serious and important issues in very critical moments in the life of the Church. It was
Pope John XXIII who assessed that this was the time for a council. As he said, a council
for the "aggiornamento", for the updating of the Church. And he said in the decree calling
it, he said, the task of the council would be to present faithfully and in its entirety
the teaching of the Church, the received teaching of the Church. But then he called upon us
to do this in a way that would attract people to the beauty of the teaching.
MZ: It's interesting too that he had been a diplomat in so many different countries
and he was used to dialogue and working with different people, and so when he decided that
moment was right for the council, he called together all the bishops of the world to confer
with them and to dialogue with them and to...
CW: He had, he had this extraordinary background, you're right. He had, his whole life was in
the diplomatic service of the Church up to almost the very end. In fact, he ended up
being the Nuncio in Paris, a very significant post, at a time when there was a lot of confusion
after the war, after the Second World War. Then he went to Venice, his pastoral assignment,
and I think there he began to put into practice the idea of working with people, collaborating
with people, listening to people, so that it seemed almost a natural thing for him when
he came to Rome and was elected Pope to say, don't we need to listen to the Church throughout
the world to see how best we can carry on the work of the Church?
MZ: And it's striking that 50 years after his death he is still remembered as Good Pope
John. And so many commentators say that our current pope, Francis, resembles him: in his
personal qualities, in his pastoral priorities and also in the world's reaction to him. Do
you see that similarity between these two men?
CW: I think there's a very, a very real similarity. Remember now, it was a completely different
time, in the early 60s, late 50s and early 60s, when John XXIII became Pope. But what
people remember, and that's why they call him Good Pope John, what they remember is
his pastoral outreach. And now along comes Pope Francis and
we see the same thing, we see a pastor of souls. That was his work in Argentina, Archbishop
of Buenos Aires. We see a man who looks first to the Gospel to see what is it Jesus is asking
us to do and then to all of those around him that he wants to invite to walk with him
as we all try to live that Gospel. I think people are seeing in Pope Francis, one of the...one
of the things that I notice when I'm in Rome, so often the Romans, because the Pope is their
bishop, they often refer to previous Popes by their family name, Pacelli, Montini, Wojtyła,
but when they speak of John XXIII it's always, "Good Pope John," and when they speak of Francis,
it's just, "Francesco." I think it speaks to the way they have taken these two popes
into their hearts.