In this next feature, we speak to Dan Germain...
...Brand Guardian and Co-Founder at innocent and in this feature...
...Dan talks about how to ensure the company retains its sustainability credentials...
...whilst also remaining financially viable.
I’m Dan Germain, I work at innocent, I’m the Head of Brand & Creative.
Innocent’s a young business, I still think of it as a young business - it’s 14 years old...
...and a company that I helped start with my friends back then in 1999.
It’s bigger now, obviously, we turn over about £250 million...
...we employ 300 people in about 14 countries and we make drinks -
...so we make delicious, healthy drinks made from fruit, so lots of smoothies, lots of juice...
...and we also dabble in food, we make things called Veg Pots.
So when you start a business, you start with - as we did with friends -
...you kind of have a shared sense of purpose or mission or values or whatever you want to call it...
...that unwritten, I think… that’s done on trust.
And it’s quite a strange process as you grow...
...you start to realise that you're bringing new people into your business, into your world...
...into your way of thinking, and you start to have to codify or write this stuff down.
So it’s quite a strange feeling for me to have to have a mission or a purpose...
...on a wall...
...but after a few years realised we had to… write this stuff down...
...we had to codify it and be able to share it with people across different countries...
...across different cultures, to make sure that they understood what the brand stood for...
...what the products were gonna do for people.
So yes, having a purpose is something that came from a realisation that we were just getting bigger.
But… actually now that we have it, it’s something that we couldn't do without...
...we couldn't do without this sort of… almost like a sort of moral compass that points us in the right direction.
And our purpose is that we want to make natural...
...healthy products that help people live well and die old - and that’s on the wall at innocent...
...and it’s kind of … you know, I believe in it personally and… we believe in it as a business as well.
I think it’s really helped us not only find the right people...
...but I think it’s really helped us just in terms of what products you make next -
...it makes it really easy to decide what’s, what’s on mission and what’s not on mission
And so...
...as a young business at the beginning...
...you've got a name, innocent, and you've made… okay so you've made some products...
...and you start to get quite excited and carried away and think, “we can do anything”...
...you know, “we could make ... we could build houses, we could brand green energy...
...we could have a budget airline” - you know, what, where, what does this name for us...
...where does it take us?
Actually having that, having that purpose that says...
...you know, you want to make natural healthy products that help people live well and die old...
...means that you always come back to...
...it’s about putting good stuff in your body, it’s about making stuff that will - although you know...
...it’s always very difficult to prove it scientifically - products that help people’s lives stretch out for another...
...maybe another five minutes or five hours or five years or whatever it is...
...and it helps stave off all the bad things that can, that can happen to your body in a life.
Packaging’s one of the things that made us famous and it’s this...
...again another accident that you...
...that you have along the way is that obviously… you've got to put the drink in something.
And we could put it in a bottle and we put a label on it...
...and we had some space on that very first label that we didn't know what to do with...
...so we wrote dumb stuff - stuff that ... just said hello to people I think –
...because we didn't know what else to do with that space...
...and that became something that people looked for.
People liked the fact that there was always a different message on a bottle or a carton...
...and so it’s part of the folklore of the business.
Obviously that’s all well and good and… a lovely sort of added extra that you get.
Actually the thing that really troubled us at the beginning is that we were...
...we’re making a great product but also we’re creating waste, we’re contributing to waste.
There are many more millions of plastic bottles in the world because innocent sells drinks...
...and you know, Tetrapak cartons and other vessels that we use.
So it’s always been this kind of paranoia that… how do we mitigate against creating waste?
I guess in our values, which again are things that came about out of actually doing business...
...we didn't… have them as a preconceived notion -
...we’ve looked at what our business has become and we’ve...
...they’re real is what I’m trying to say.
So one of those values is to be responsible and that just means...
...it kinda means, you know, tidying up after yourself as a business and not, you know...
...not being a net polluter, but being a positive contributor to sustainability.
And our first bottles were made from completely virgin PET...
...which is the kind of plastic that we use because they were the only ones we could find.
And gradually over the years, we’ve talked to the companies that make the PET plastic for us...
...and said, “Can you get a recycled form of this material?”
And at first people say, “oh no, oh no, you can’t do it, it’s all dirty, it’s got ...” -
...you know, I remember talking to people around the year 2000 about this -
...“it’s got dirty little specks in it and it will make the drinks look horrible” ...
...and, you know, we saw examples of this, and so… we couldn't use this material in our minds.
But gradually over the years, what we did… I think we became an annoyance...
...if I’m being honest, we became an annoyance to the plastic industry because we kept asking -
...we kept saying, “you must be able to do something”, “you must be able to make this better.”
And ... willingly or not, they, they did, up until a point - I think in 2007 - where we launched the...
...world’s first 100% recycled PET bottle, which for us was this absolute momentous time...
...you know - we’d cracked it...
...with some help from our suppliers, we’d made this completely from recycled bottle.
Now, that was a bit of a false storm because actually, after putting that product into market for a few months...
...the quality of it just didn't… it didn't last.
And we couldn't… as a business we couldn't have that out there because...
...not that it would endanger anyone but it just...
...it didn't look great and it, and you know, for every...
...I can’t remember the exact numbers but for every 50 bottles you made, you probably had to dump...
...10 because they weren’t good enough.
So I guess what’s happened is that we’ve gone back to...
...we’ve gone back to the mark where we can guarantee quality...
...which at first was 30%, and now we’re back to 50%...
...and we’ll get back to 100% because the technology… will abide… will get us there.
But it was… I guess it was a salutary lesson in getting a bit carried away with ourselves when we cracked it..
...and actually we hadn’t don - we were just… you know...
...one step closer, I think, to getting a truly sustainable, usable...
...bottle that’s made from 100% recycled plastic.
And still, you know, I don't know of anyone that’s, that's doing it...
I still think when we’re doing it properly, it will be a world first.
Yeah, there is a bit of a rub, I think, between making a product that is...
...something that people almost… when they first buy it, they buy it with their eyes -
...you know, you're buying the colours of the fruit...
...you're buying something you see as vital and delicious - which is… how people buy food.
They kind of buy on taste or perceived taste, versus having something that is...
...ethical or sustainable, you know, whether, whether it’s the pack or the labelling or whatever.
And so we’ve always had a problem with recycled plastic in particular...
...because it can take on a bit of a tinge, a sort of bluey tinge...
...which then alters the colour of your… if you've got a really vibrant mango smoothie...
...but it’s seen through a sort of blue filter, then you and up with a sort of murky green drink...
...which isn't… which isn't what you want to put on the shelf.
So there is… a brand...
...I wouldn't say brand versus sustainability, but… the two can rub up against each other...
...so you have to figure out how to use sustainability and associated issues to...
...as a positive.
And actually ultimately what you have to do is just explain to people...
...if you're really committed, “you might see there’s a bit of a blue tinge round the top of this bottle...
...that’s because it’s made from 50% recycled PET”.
Would we have done anything differently when we first...
...started producing our 100% recycled bottle back in 2007?
Probably in hindsight… obviously always you can find something different to do.
We may well have tested it out more on our drinkers...
...it may have been good to sort of...
...I mean we did, but in a very limited way.
I think we were probably in a rush to be able to claim a world first...
...which is what we were really excited about.
And I guess the other thing that you can always think about these situations is...
...were we trying to do something for ourselves or was there a bigger goal to achieve?
You know, could we have talked to other companies, other businesses...
...maybe businesses that use a lot more plastic than we do?
You know, supermarkets or giant drinks companies...
...and work with them to create something?
That would have been interesting and that’s kind of… that’s the way that we work more now...
...because you realise that the… net positive benefit you can have...
...as a group is always gonna be larger than just trying to hide your little project away...
...and serve your own business which...
...the end point to all of this is that human kind is messing up the planet drastically...
...and it would be better for these things to be scalable and happen, you know...
...widely rather than for you to sort of hide your little trick...
...so I’d much rather be out there open, talking to other people...
...working in sustainability forums...
...than trying to claim little world firsts here and there that ultimately...
...at the end of the day maybe have a little less meaning...
...than if you can do things on a bigger scale.