That's something...
no, no,. wait.. that is no scientific..
There has to be energy.
No, you cannot say that Matter always existed just by your claim.
A claim has to be backed up.
Show me any scientist who say that matter always existed.
You mentioned the first law of thermodynamics,
and you said in a close system, Energy can neither be created nor be destroyed.
Now, why are you assuming the universe always existed?
Because that doesn't prove that the universe always existed.
that only proves in a close system, a certain principle is always the case.
But if you're going to assume that
the universe always existed or matter always existed
or energy always existed, these are just assumptions.
These are unscientific assumptions.
No, These are not unscientific assumptions;
In quantum mechanics,
There is always there.
Yeah, quantum mechanics is as a macro level.
well if It's a micro level? [Yes]
At a micro level, There is always something there.
But we are not with the micro level..
We are talking about the existence of the universe.
On micro level, There has to be something.
There has to be something in existence, there's those such things into space.
So there is always something... that's something...
No, wait... that's not scientific.
There has to be energy.
No, you cannot say that matter always existed just by your claim.
A claim has to be backed up.
Show me any scientist who says that matter always existed, go on...
No. Anything.
Energy and matter are the same thing... equal to empty square...
Even energy always existed.. show me anyone who say that.
everything is some form of energy.
If.. energy and matter are the same thing in a different form.
I think you're just repeating the same thing, even though I corrected, wait a minute..
Instead of saying that; in a closed system, energy can neither be destroyed or created,
you are assuming that energy is eternal,
which is not something which we learned from the first law of thermodynamics.
you tell me what you believe from the first law of thermodynamics?
I've just repeated this several times....
Yes, in a closed system, I agree,.
Matter can neither be created or energy can be created nor destroyed.
But just based on that, you cannot assume it is eternal.
What would be the alternative to energy?
What is the alternative to energy, in what case?
whatever exist has to be some form of energy.
Okay, let me ask you something.
Do you believe that you have a soul?
Do I believe I have a soul?
What is it going to do anything?
I'll tell you what is going to do.
First, Tell me if you believe or not.
I Probably do have a soul...
Don't tell me probably, tell me something that you're certain about.
I have consciousness
Okay. Consciousness... Very good.
Is consciousness energy?
Consciousness is a form of Brain
Is it energy?
Because you said everything is energy.
Now I'm asking you, is consciousness energy?
It's not energy.
Consciousness must me a form of energy.
If you don't know, just say I don't know.
it comes from the mind.
no.. Look, you need to understand consciousness.
Define consciousness.
You define it. [I will]
But let me know because you said it can be a form of energy.
I want to know if you understand what consciousness is.
....A person's awareness or perception.
Exactly.
So it's your understanding of your environment
that you're aware of your environment, of your existence.
This has got nothing to do with energy.
Consciousness itself is a different entity to energy.
However, you and I and I think every scientist out there will believe that..
Yes, we all have consciousness yes, but no one will ever say, no Scientist,
No philosopher will say that consciousness is energy.
What is that.
It is like yourself.
It's something.
It's for you as subjective
of your understanding environment, of your existence.
So I exist.
Hence, I am conscious.
If you look at certain philosophers like ...., they have actually said this.
And this is what they've defined as consciousness.
When anyone who says this is energy, they don't know what conscience is.
So that's the reason I'm asking you
that there are many people who would actually believe in consciousness,
but they don't have any evidence from a lab or any...
I don't know from any instrument or tool
to detect this consciousness, yet they firmly believe in it.
Like the way you do,
like the way the scientists do, like the way the philosophers do.
So we have to understand that we don't just live in a naturalistic world.
We live in a world which has got both matter and something which is metaphysical.
Okay, so we got matter which can be seen, detected.
We can know through empirical evidence that they exist.
However, when it comes to asking about
things which are metaphysical, this is outside scope of science.
So you cannot go to some scientists
and say, okay, detect how much love I have for my pet
in comparison to how much love for my parents.
They will never be able to tell you.
Because this comes as a form from your consciousness.
It is something which you can only know.
Only you will know subjectively how much...
whom you love more; your pets or your parents.
Do you see what I mean? There are things other than just matter.
There are things other than just energy, which we call the metaphysical.
The metaphysical world is pretty real, and you believe it. And I believe it.
Something like an example I gave you is Consciousness.
Of course, we understand what it is.
Energy doesn't have to be something that you can actually detect or define.
You can detect energy....I don't think there's any energy..
I said, it can be something that you cannot necessarily detect or define.
Then you don't know if it exists, then
if you cannot define it, if you cannot measure it,
if you cannot detect it, then how do you know it exists?
If you don't even have empirical evidence for it, you can't know it exists.
we know, it exists from from looking around, we know this is made of energy
we can see all that.
Give me an example of something
which you cannot detect or observe through empirical evidence,
Give an example.
Your consciousness.
That's the one I gave you.
And I believe that is metaphysical not physical.
Sorry.
everything stems from some form of energy, you can’t necessarily detect
And who made that principle? Because I've never heard of that principle.
Everything stems from energy, from Where do you get that?
no, no, I'm saying everything could be a form of energy of energy,
even if you can't detect it.
Yeah, I am asking you, where do you get that principle from
Because everything came everything came from an original energy source.
And what is that?
It depends on whether you believe on Science or religion.
No, What do you believe in?
Because you mentioned this. I want to know;
What do you believe in?
We'll continue this thing.
Okay. No problem.
Thanks to a lot, mate.
Seek me out next week or I will seek you out.
I'm going to seek you out if you want to continue this.
Yeah, [I will seek you out] please do, in Sha Allah.
So what's your name, by the way?
Superman.
Can you show how you fly?
Yeah, I want to know how you fly.
Maybe next week.
Okay, [ we will continue this], that's fine, in Sha Allah. Okay.
Yeah. Just to give a quick summary.
So the gentlemen, He wanted to discuss about certain things in religion.
I asked him, do you believe in God?
And he says maybe, maybe not.
He wasn't sure whether he even exists.
And then I think it from the progressed into
matter and energy and about the existing of the universe.
So, Alhamdulliah, You know, this is something that we have to understand
that not everyone is going to believe what you just claim.
You need to substantiate what you claim.
So you cannot just say energy always existed,
and then assume that we will all believe it.
Even the Scientists don't work like that.
They need to substantiate.
They need to go through certain peer groups to find out whether the theory
that you believe in, can be falsified or the truth.
Yes, it's a scientific approach as well,
to look at things objectively and to look at it.
But if you are going to then depend on a tool
like science to understand things of the metaphysical world,
then it is something which is beyond the scope of science.
It is like the example of someone using a metal detector to find plastic.
So the wrong tool for finding something which is metaphysical and that is science.
And this is where I think we have to understand from both perspectives
that we have to understand the limitations of science.
And you also have to understand the strength of science.
The science does tell us how things work. It does tell us,
It will never be able to tell you things like the origin of the universe, won't be
able to tell you an origin of many things, like the first cell and so on.
Yes, they can speculate and assume things,
but cannot tell you for certain how things originate.