♪ [music] ♪
- [Merel] Are you ready?
- [Woman] Yes. - You can do it.
- Yeah. - Okay.
Okay. - So...
- How much distress do you have right now on a scale from zero to 100?
- Two hundred.
- How do you feel that? It's okay, it's okay. -[Crying] -You are doing,
you are doing well. It's okay. It's okay, you can do it. It's okay. It's okay.
♪ [music] ♪
Yeah? Okay, thanks. [foreign language] So are you ready for this one thing that
we are not going to fight? So if you start fighting then we stop.
- Okay.
- That's okay, yeah, that's okay. There's no problem. You do your very best
and there's, well, that's the only thing that you could do.
Yeah, and try to immerse yourself into the fear.
- Yeah.
- Okay? Okay. Shall we go? - Yeah.
- It's okay, it's okay. You are doing, you are doing well. It's okay, it's okay.
Sometimes people think that we should not erase a fear response because the fear
system helps us to survive, to flee or to fight, or whatever.
It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. - [crying]
But there are many fears and phobias that could cause problems. It's already done.
Very, very good. Take your time. For instance, needle phobia is a very
serious problem because there are always situations where you really need
an injection. You cannot get vaccinations, or you cannot become pregnant,
or other life-saving medical interventions. So it is a huge problem if
people suffer from a needle phobia. You can take one pill out of it.
- [Man] You got it? - Yeah.
- Yeah. - Thank you.
- On the other hand, I'm not saying that we should change or
reduce all fears or phobias. - Thank you.
- Just, when it interferes in a way with people's daily lives that is indeed
out of control, that is the moment that we should try to interfere and
to change something. Can you try to look at it?
Okay. Is that okay for you? - Yeah.
- How does that feel if you look at it? - From scale zero to 100, 10.
- Yeah, okay. - It doesn't feel bad.
- Okay, that's good.
♪ [music] ♪
And? - Zero.
- There are many pathways to develop a fear or a phobia. It is either by direct
traumatic experience, it can also be via motherly,
especially if your mother is showing a strong fear response.
So I know that I'm aware of that. Ten years ago, my oldest daughter, Magalee
had this very serious surgery to lengthen her leg, because one of her legs
was too short. So they cut the bone. And we were in the hospital a day
before the surgery, and she was very stressed and had to cry a lot.
That made me cry, and it was so emotional. And I thought, if I come back tomorrow and I'm
still like that, I mean, that's really not very helpful for her.
♪ [music] ♪
I felt like, what can I do? And then I decided, I take pill
of propranolol, my wonder pill.
♪ [music] ♪
And I was good, because then I was no longer occupied with suppressing
my feelings, and I could be really into the situation and focusing on her,
helping her. But later on, although I'm, to a certain extent, happy
that I took the pill because I feel like, wow, I could support her,
and so I also realized that, in a way, it is more unreal, because a normal
response would, of course, be that I had to cry,
that I had felt the fear and the arousal and so on. And so the memory feels
less real, yeah.
♪ [music] ♪
- [Jamie] Today is not, like, a really phobic patient,
it's actually my supervisor who designed the treatment, and she's also afraid
of snakes. So we want her, yeah, ideally, if we can do a bit of a treatment today,
and then test it whether it was effective tomorrow, then she'll be less afraid when
we do the treatment with the full, like, really phobic patient on Thursday.
But because she's not a super-phobic, we think we might need to go a
bit further, maybe even to put it round her neck.
- There are a couple of reasons I'm here. First of all, it would be cool if I'm able
to treat people with a fear of snakes.
- And if there's something in particular that you can sort of pinpoint about the
snakes that you find particularly unpleasant, particularly frightening...
- Yeah, I find them sneaky. So, so I don't really trust them.
- Yeah. What do you mean by that, because that's...
- [laughter]
- Do you mean that you don't know what they're going to do, or...
- But It's probably because I don't know them very well, so it's, for me,
very hard to predict their behavior, to understand them.
- Yeah. - Maybe I should remove this.
- Why do you want to remove that? - It could sort of be sort of...
- Enticing for the snake? - Yeah.
- I think it would... If it were the patient,
I think you would say that would be a safe [inaudible].
- Yeah, yeah. - And then I'll...
- Do it for me, yeah. Okay. Well, I have fear of snakes,
but it does not interfere with my daily life at all. I do not really suffer
from it. Not at all, I do not suffer from it.
- Okay. So first, I want to show you something that's...
- Oh no. - Yeah.
- No. - You okay?
- No, that's terrible. Yeah. Oh.
- Yeah, and we're going to go around here and see some different ones.
- Oh yeah, this is really an ugly one.
- So can you come here? And I want you to just look at this one.
- Jesus Christ, this is terrible. I don't think that we should always try
to change our emotional memories. Emotional memories are very functional,
and give also color to our lives. Okay, yeah.
- And is it possible for her to hold it herself as well here?
Yeah, well done, Merel. - Yeah.
- Yeah? And how do you feel now? - Yeah, I'm okay.
- From naught to 100 now?
- I think 60 or so. - Yeah.
- On the other hand, people can always decide to improve
themselves and to get rid of their subclinical fears.
I'm a little bit afraid of... - The head?
- Yeah, the head. But somehow, because it's a pill,
people have difficulty with it.
- I think you did really well in terms of...
- Yeah.
- What we did here, and there's not much further we can go.
- No. No.
- So... - I think...yeah.
- Should we take the propranolol? - Yeah, yeah.
- Okay, I'll get it for you now.
- There is also something... I think it's a little bit
of Calvinistic reasoning, that people think if you want to get rid
of your fears you have to do it yourself, you have to work for that,
you have to suffer for it before they overcome it, and it shouldn't ever be easy
to take a pill and then the fear is gone.
- We'll just have to wait and see now how it is...
- Tomorrow, yeah.
♪ [music] ♪
So to what degree does it interfere with your daily life?
- [Woman] Well, there are not really snakes in the Netherlands, so...
- That's true, yeah.
- I'm not really afraid of that. - Yeah.
- So in real general, general daily life...
- Yeah. - Doesn't really interfere.
- Yeah. - But...
- Basically, for your holidays...
- For holidays and watching...
- Watching television.
- Watching television. I tried it once with a very cool
"Planet Earth" episode. I don't know where it was.
- Yeah.
- There were all these snakes following these really cute animals,
and I really wanted to see it. I, just, I couldn't look at it.
Yeah, the fact that they don't have feet...
- Mm-hmm. - Yeah.
- That's okay, yeah. - Oh no!
- It's okay. - Oh no!
- It's okay, don't worry. It's okay, let's [inaudible].
- No, I can't!
- Yeah, perfect, perfect, perfect. All right, you can do it. You can do it.
- Oh God! I'm sorry. - It's okay.
- I'm sorry. No!
- There isn't another one, just this one in the room.
- There are no other snakes, no other snakes. There's only one.
- Yes, there's only one. Come with me, come with me. Should we try to go a
little closer? You are doing very well.
- No! I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry. No.
- Very good. Yeah? Do you think that you can... There are so many people suffering
from disorders of emotional memory.
Twenty percent of people suffer from a fear or anxiety disorder,
so that is motivating for me to go on with my research, and trying to improve what we
are doing. Try not to move away but to step forward. But sometimes you also have
doubts because, in a way, it's all about human enhancements and why
should we always go for the better. Okay. You did very well, you did very well.
It's as if I do not allow that people are afraid or phobic.
[Foreign language].
I can't believe it. I'm not completely comfortable but...
- That's okay, it's okay. Okay, okay.
♪ [music] ♪
- I'm somewhat hairy of me.
- I find it very scary, its tongue and its head, and, yeah,
so we are both treated.
- Yeah, treated with your own cure.
- Yeah, with this snake, actually. So you have them.
♪ [music] ♪
But the question is, when is it going too far?
♪ [music] ♪
I don't know, so it is something that I'm thinking about.
Life is hard, and everyone has emotional memories, and some are really difficult
and terrifying, or very sad, but this is part of our lives.
♪ [music] ♪
Fear is a beautiful emotion. It's evolutionary, and a fantastic system.
It is everywhere in all organisms. You might even consider it as part
of our intelligence, because we are able to not only think back
but also think in the future.
♪ [music] ♪
But on the other hand, if you have irrational fear or
anxiety disorders, you are a victim of that system, and it really interferes
with people's ability to enjoy the very beautiful sides of life.
♪ [music] ♪
I don't know why, but this is how we are.
[laughing] Yeah. [foreign language[
♪ [music] ♪