HOW ARE YOU DOING, SEAN?
>> I'M DOING WELL.
YOU'VE INHERITED A LITTLE OF THE AMBIEN I HAD TO TAKE TO GET TO
SLEEP AFTER A RED EYE LAST NIGHT.
>> Announcer: SO YOU'RE STILL A LITTLE BIT ON THE AMBIEN TRAIN
RIGHT NOW?
>> A LITTLE BIT.
>> Announcer: OKAY.
NOW, I'VE INTERVIEWED YOU BEFORE.
>> YEAH.
>> Announcer: HOW DO YOU TELL SEAN PENN ON AMBIEN FROM SEAN
PENN NOT ON AMBIEN?
BECAUSE YOU'RE VERY LOW KEY.
>> WELL, LET'S SEE -- ( LAUGHTER )
I THINK IT'S PRETTY MUCH THE SAME.
THERE'S A LOT OF TIMES I'M JUST REGULAR TIRED.
>> Stephen: JUST REGULAR TIRED?
>> YEAH.
>> Stephen: I'VE GOT A CHALLENGE GROWR.
I'VE GOT JIMMY CARTER -- I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT.
SO JIMMY CARTER IS MY GUEST ON FRIDAY.
HE'S 93.
LET'S SEE IF YOU CAN BRING MORE ENERGY TO THIS INTERVIEW THAN
JIMMY CARTER WILL BRING ON FRIDAY.
IS THAT FAIR IS THIS.
>> YEAH.
>> Stephen: YEAH?
GOOD.
ALL RIGHT.
I SAW YOU ON CBS SUNDAY MORNING YESTERDAY.
YOU WERE WALKING AROUND YOUR HOUSE.
YOU SAY YOU'RE NOT THAT INTO ACTING ANYMORE IN THAT
INTERVIEW.
YOU'RE BREAK AGO LOT OF PEOPLE'S HEARTS BY SAYING THAT.
WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO ACT ANYMORE?
>> BREAKING HEARTS, PLENTY PEOPLE WOULD BE THRILLED, ALSO.
>> Stephen: NO, WAIT A SECOND, PEOPLE MIGHT NOT LIKE YOUR
POLITICS OR YOU.
I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY'D DISLIKE YOU, BUT YOUR ACTING, YOU ARE A
TWO-TIME OSCAR WINNER.
PEOPLE LOVE YOUR ACTING, YOU HAVE TO KNOW THAT.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) >> YOU KNOW, I THINK
THERE'S --IST ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE FOR ME THAT -- YOU KNOW,
IT'S ALL ABOUT WHERE YOU ENGAGE IN AN EXPRESSION CREATIVELY ONE
WAY OR THE OTHER, AND I THINK THAT, AS I GOT OLDER -- THE
GREATEST THING THAT AN ACTOR CAN BRING TO THE PARTY IS TO PLAY
WELL WITH OTHERS.
IT'S THE COLLABORATION.
I INCREASINGLY DON'T PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS.
AND, SO, IT BECOMES LESS ENJOYABLE BECAUSE I LOVE THAT
PROCESS WHEN I LOVE IT BUT I'M NOT LOVING THAT ANYMORE, AND
THAT'S REALLY WHY I FINALLY CAME AROUND TO WRITING A NOVEL
BECAUSE I -- IT WAS A WAY I DIDN'T HAVE COLLABORATORS.
THERE WERE NO -- I WAS NEVER DISAPPOINTED WITH ME.
( LAUGHTER ) >> Stephen: OH, OKAY.
OKAY.
SO YOU HAVEN'T CHANGED.
YOU HAVEN'T CHANGED.
THE MOVIE BUSINESS HAS CHANGED, WHICH IS WHY YOU'VE MOVED ON TO
WRITING BOOKS NOW.
LAST TIME YOU WERE HERE, YOU WERE HERE FOR THE AUDIO BOOK OF
"BOB HONEY WHO JUST DO STUFF," AND YOU TOLD ME IT WASN'T
WRITTEN BY YOU.
YOU SAID IT WAS WRITTEN BY A GUY NAMED PAPPY PARIAH WHO YOU MET
40 YEARS AGO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WERE YOU LYING THEN OR ARE YOU LYING NOW?
>> THERE'S A LINE IN THE BOOK THAT SAYS SOMETIMES I LIKE TO
LIE.
>> Stephen: IS THAT YOU SAYING THAT OR BOB HONEY?
>> NO, IT'S A GREAT GERMAN ROCK BAND.
HERE'S WHAT IT IS IS THAT I HAD BEEN ASKED ABOUT -- FROM THE
TIME I WAS ABOUT 30, BECAUSE I HAD BEEN FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO
LIVE A KIND OF DIVERSE LIFE AND TRAVEL A LOT, TO WRITE A MEMOIR.
IT ALWAYS EMBARRASSED ME, THE IDEA OF DOING THAT.
I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, IN THE WAY THAT CRITICISM IS AUTOBIOGRAPHY
TYPICALLY, OR THERE'S -- IN ANY DISCUSSION OF AUTHORSHIP IS
INTERESTING BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS TALK ABOUT A MUSE OR THE
MUSIC THEY HEAR IN THEIR HEAD AND THAT SEEMS OTHER THAN THEM.
SO WHEN I FIRST THOUGHT ABOUT THIS BOOK, I STARTED TO HEAR A
RHYTHM OF SPEECH, A STORYTELLER ABOUT BOB HONEY, SO I GAVE HIM A
NAME, PAPPY PARIAH, WHICH BECAME A CHARACTER IN THE NOVEL, AND I
JUST DECIDED TO LET IT LIVE AS HIS FOR A BIT.
AND NOW I'M HERE, YOU KNOW, IN AN EVOLUTION OF THAT PROCESS,
SHARING THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE EARLIER TRUTH I TOLD YOU.
>> Stephen: I'M ON BOARD.
I'M ON THAT TRAIN WITH YOU.
OKAY.
THAT'S GOOD.
SO IS IT LIKE ACTING FOR YOU?
YOU'RE DEVELOPING A CHARACTER AND BASICALLY YOU'VE IMPROVISED
YOUR CHARACTER'S STORY AND THAT BECAME THE BOOK?
>> IT'S VERY MUCH LIKE THAT BECAUSE WITHOUT A DIRECTOR,
WITHOUT ANY MONEY PRESSURING THE PROCESS, YOU JUST SIT RIGHT
THERE, AND ONCE YOU'VE DONE IT, IT'S A COMPLETE THING.
YOU'RE NOT SELLING AN IDEA WHERE SOMEBODY SAYS, I WANT TO BUILD
YOU A BIRD AND THEY GIVE YOU THE MONEY TO DO IT AND THEY WERE
EXPECTING A FALCON AND YOU BUILT THEM A SPARROW AND YOU ALWAYS
INTENDED SPARROW AND THEY MISUNDERSTOOD AND THEY'RE VERY
DISAPPOINTED AND THEIR MONEY IS SPENT.
IN THIS CASE I MAKE THE BIRD I WANT TO MAKE AND I FLY IT OVER
TO A PUBLISHER AND IT'S COMPLETE.
THERE'S NO FOOLING AROUND.
THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT BIRD THEY'RE DECIDING ON IT.
IF THEY WIN WITH IT, GREAT.
IF THEY DON'T, NOT MY FAULT.
>> Stephen: BECAUSE THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE BUYING.
>> THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE BUYING.
I JUST FELT THAT THE WHOLE CREATIVE PROCESS, EVEN THE
PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE CREATIVE PROCESS HAVE BECOME SO
SELF-CENSORING AND EXPLORATION OF AN IDEA OF CATCHING LIGHTNING
IN A BOTTLE THAT THERE'S SO MUCH PROCESSING NOW.
AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE DO IT VERY WELL AND YOUNGER PEOPLE
PARTICULAR BECAUSE I THINK THEIR MINDS WORK IN A DIFFERENT WAY
FAST SNORE ARE YOU STILL CHALLENGED BY IT OR ARE YOU
SAYING I CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT CHALLENGING FOR ME?
>> I THINK A GIRL I FELL IN LOVE IN WAS GOING INTO A MOVIE
THEATER IN THE DARK AND NOW THERE IS SO MUCH I CAN'T KEEP
TRACK OF IT AND IT'S SPECIAL.
>> Stephen: SO YOU BLAME IT ON NETFLIX.
>> PROBABLY PAYING OFF SETTLEMENTS FOR YEARS.
>> Stephen: NETFLIX?
I WOULD ASSUME.
>> Stephen: I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN.
I TOOK US DOWN THE NETFLIX PATH.
I'M SORRY I DID.
WHAT SETTLEMENTS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT FROM NETFLIX?
>> WELL, MAYBE WE SHOULD MOVE ON.
( LAUGHTER ) >> Stephen: I'M NOT SURE.
BUT I'M HAPPY TO.
I TELL YOU, I WISH YOU WOULD MOVE ON.
PLEASE DON'T SMOKE ANYMORE.
I UON'T MIND.
MY PARENTS SMOKED WHEN I WAS A CHILD SO IT GIVES ME HAPPY
MEMORIES TO SMELL CIGARETTE SMOKE.
BUT WE WANT YOU TO BE AROUND FOR A LONG TIME AND THOSE ARE BAD
FOR YOU.
>> THIS IS JOB SECURITY FOR ONCOLOGISTS.
>> Stephen: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THIS BOOK IS LIKE.
>> IT'S CALLED "BOB HONEY WHO JUST DO STUFF," NOT "BOB HONEY
WHO JUST DON'T DO STUFF."
>> Stephen: SO IT'S "BOB HONEY WHO JUST DO STUFF," BOB HONEY
DOESN'T SMOKE.
>> HE DOESN'T.
>> Stephen: DOES PAPPY PARIAH?
OH, YEAH.
>> Stephen: WHICH ONE DO YOU HAVE THE MOST ASSOCIATION WITH
IN YOUR OWN MIND?
>> THIS IS WHAT I MEANT BY THE MUSIC OF THIS THING, I DON'T
KNOW, BECAUSE I JUST -- MY KIDS ALWAYS ACCUSE ME OF BEING MOST
AMUSED BY MY OWN HUMOR, AND IT WAS RARE THAT THEY DIDN'T THINK
I TOOK IT A STEP FURTHER WHEN THEY THOUGHT I WAS FUNNY AND
THEN I KILLED IT.
AGAIN, I DIDN'T HAVE THEM AROUND WHEN I WROTE THIS EITHER, SO I
JUST WENT AND WENT AND WENT AND LAUGHED A LOT.
>> Stephen: YEAH.
ALONE.
>> Stephen: WERE YOU ON IOWASKA TEA OR ANYTHING LIKE
THAT?
BECAUSE IT IS WILD.
YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO GET ON THE BACK OF THIS BRONCO BECAUSE
THE PROSE GOES ALL OVER THE PLACE.
IT'S POETIC AND DISJOINTED FOR THE TIME.
WHAT'S YOUR PROCESS?
>> I PLAYED MY OWN LITTLE ROLE IN DEBATES THROUGH THE YEARS AND
THAT WHICH SEEMS TO ONLY LEAD TO THE DIVISIVENESS TODAY, AN I
WANTED TO DO SOMETHING THAT, IN FICTION, WOULD BE INCLUSIONARY
OF ANYBODY.
IT WOULDN'T HAVE -- THIS IS NOT AN OPINION PIECE.
AND EVEN THOSE WHO MIGHT -- IF THERE'S SUCH A THING AS A PERSON
WHO WILL READ THIS DESPITE BEING PREDISPOSED TO LOATHE ITS
AUTHOR, THEN I WOULD USE A TERM THAT YOU ONCE SAID TO ME ABOUT
YOUR EARLIER SHOW, WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT TREATING YOU AS A
DRUNKEN UNCLE.
>> Stephen: YES.
MY CHARACTER.
>> YES.
FOR THOSE WHO MAY FIND A DIFFERENT OPINION WITH THE
POLITICS THEY PERCEIVE IT TO REPRESENT, IT COULD BE THE
CONVERSATION ONCE A YEAR WITH THE DRUNKEN UNCLE.
YOU DON'T WANT TO SPEND ALL YEAR WITH HIM.
>> Stephen: JUST THANKSGIVING.
OR JUST A COUPLE OF HOURS.
IT'S A SHORT BOOK.
AND THEN IT'S A COLORFUL CONVERSATION.
>> Stephen: SIT PAPPY PARIAH BECAUSE YOU ARE A FATHER AND YOU
ARE A PARIAH IN SOME CIRCLES YOURSELF, LIKE SOME PEOPLE WOULD
SHUN YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR POLITICS OR THE PEOPLE YOU'VE
ASSOCIATED YOURSELF WITH?
>> MAYBE, YEAH.
>> Stephen: OKAY.
I'VE ALWAYS LIKED THE WORD.
>> Stephen: PARIAH?
YEAH.
>> Stephen: YEAH, IT'S PRETTY.
( LAUGHTER ) NO, NO, IT IS.
LIKE.
♪ THEY CALL THE WIND PARIAH ♪ >> I DON'T KNOW THAT SONG.
>> Stephen: DO YOU KNOW FLY ME TO THE (BLEEP) MOON?
>> DO I KNOW THAT SONG.
( PIANO RIFF ) ( APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A LITTLE BREAK.
DON'T GO AWAY.
WE'LL BE BACK WITH MORE SEAN PENN.