>> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY, WE'RE BACK HERE WITH THE AUTHORS
OF THE NEWLY RELEASED, UPDATED "ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN," CARL
BERNSTEIN AND BOB WOODWARD.
YOU TALK ABOUT HATE AND THE HATE THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT MIGHT
HAVE FOR THE PEOPLE HE FEELS DO NOT CONSTANTLY PRAISE HIM, LET'S
SAY.
BUT I'VE ALSO HEARD-- CARL I KNOW YOU SAID THIS-- BEHIND
CLOSED DOORS REPUBLICANS IN WASHINGTON JUST DETEST THE
FORMER PRESIDENT, BUT THEY WON'T SAY IT BECAUSE THEY'RE
FRIGHTENED OF HIS BASE.
WHAT WAS THAT LIKE WITH NIXON?
WAS THERE A RESPECT FOR NIXON, OR DID THE REPUBLICANS AT THE
TIME REALLY WANT TO GET RIT RID OF HIM?
>> THEY WERE RESPECTFUL OF HIM.
MOST REPUBLICANS FOLLOWED HIS POLICIES, LIKED HIS POLICIES,
SUPPORTED HIM PRETTY WHOLEHEARTEDLY.
THE DIFFERENCE HERE-- YOU KNOW, I DID THIS FOR FOR CNN, BOTH IN
PRINT AND ON THE AIR, THAT SAID THAT 21 REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF
THE SENATE DESPISE TRUMP, DISDAIN HIM.
AND THEN I GOT A CALL THE NEXT DAY FROM A FORMER REPUBLICAN
SENATOR WHO CALLED ME AND SAID, "CARL, THE NUMBER IS REALLY
CLOSER TO 40."
AND HERE YOU HAVE-- AND ONLY TWO OF THE ONES I NAMED-- NAMED ALL
21 OF THEM-- ONLY TWO DID ANYTHING LIKE DENYING WHAT I HAD
WRITTEN.
BUT I HAD GOTTEN THIS FROM MEMBERS OF THE STAFF OF EACH OF
THESE SENATORS.
AND THEN YOU LOOK AT HOW CRAVEN THESE PEOPLE IN THE SENATE ARE
TO GO ALONG WITH TRUMPISM, TO GO ALONG WITH AUTHORITARIANISM, TO
GO ALONG WITH WHAT TRUMP HAS DONE TO UNDERMINE DEMOCRACY.
ONE OF OUR TWO POLITICAL PARTIES HAS BEEN CAPTURED-- CAPTURED BY
THESE FORCES.
>> YEAH, AND THEY'RE JUST NOT COMING CLEAN.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> AND PART OF THE PROBLEM IN OUR POLITICS IS THERE'S NOT
ENOUGH TRANSPARENCY.
PEOPLE ARE NOT SAYING HOW THEY FEEL.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME VERY MUCH IS A REMARK THAT WE
REPORTED ON THAT GINA HASPEL, TRUMP'S C.I.A. CORRECT, NOW, SHE
IS A TOUGH LADY, SOMEBODY WHO WATCHED WATERBOARDING AND SO
FORTH.
SO ABOUT A WEEK AFTER THE ELECTION, WHICH TRUMP LOST, WE
KNOW FROM ALL THE EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, HE FIRED HIS DEFENSE
SECRETARY, MARK ESPER, WHO VERY WELL RESPECTED PERSON, AND GINA
HASPEL SAYS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS INSANITY.
WE ARE EXPERIENCING A RIGHT-WING COUP.
TRUMP IS ACTING LIKE A SIX-YEAR-OLD WITH A TANTRUM.
NOW, WE'VE HEARD SOME C.I.A.
DIRECTORS SAY SOME NASTY THINGS ABOUT PRESIDENTS.
"A SIX-YEAR-OLD--" REMEMBER WHEN YOU WERE A SIX-YEAR-OLD?
I DO.
>> YOU HAVE A BETTER MEMORY THAN I.
>> Stephen: I WANT A BALLOON.
I WANT A BALLOON.
>> GIVE IT TO ME.
LET IT RIP.
>> Stephen: OKAY, SO, EVENTUALLY THE REPUBLICAN
SENATORS IN 1974, LED BY GOLDWATER, ONCE THEY'D HEARD THE
TAPES, RIGHT.
ONCE THEY'D HEARD THE TAPES THEY MARCHED OVER TO THE WHITE HOUSE
AND SAID YOU'VE GOT TO GO BECAUSE YOU'RE-- WE'RE GOING TO
VOTE TO IMPEACH YOU.
WE'RE NOT ON YOUR SIDE ANYMORE.
IS THAT HOW IT WENT DOWN, ESSENTIALLY?
>> WE WROTE A BOOK CALLED "THE FINAL DAYS" ABOUT NIXON'S LAST
YEARS IN OFFICE.
WE WENT TO SEE BARRY GOLDWATER, THE 1964 NOMINEE OF HIS PARTY
FOR PRESIDENT.
WE WENT UP TO HIS APARTMENT.
HE POURED HIMSELF A BIG TUMBLER OF WHISKEY, TURNED OUT HIS
DIARY-- >> ONE FOR YOU AND ONE FOR ME,
ALSO.
DON'T LEAVE THAT OUT.
( LAUGHTER ).
>> OKAY.
>> BUT GOLDWATER WAS SUCH THIS FIGURE.
>> HE WAS CONSIDERED REALLY, BY THAT TIME, A KIND OF CONSCIENCE
OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, PULLS OUT THIS DIARY AND STARTS
READING TO US ABOUT HOW HE TOOK A GROUP OF LEADERS IN THE SENATE
AND THE HOUSE, THE REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP, TO THE OVAL OFFICE.
NIXON IS SITTING ACROSS FROM HIM.
NIXON FULLY EXPECTING GOLDWATER TO TELL HIM THAT HE'S PROBABLY
GOT ENOUGH VOTES TO PREVAIL AND NOT BE CONVICTED IN A SENATE
TRIAL.
SO NIXON SAYS, "BARRY, HOW MANY VOTES DO I HAVE IN THE SENATE
FOR ACQUITTAL?" GOLDWATER LOOKS AT HIM AND SAYS,
"MR. PRESIDENT, MAYBE FOUR, MAYBE SIX, AND YOU DON'T HAVE
MINE."
AND THE NEXT DAY, RICHARD NIXON WENT ON TELEVISION AND ANNOUNCED
HE WAS GOING TO RESIGN.
THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE.
>> Stephen: OKAY-- >> BETWEEN THE REPUBLICANS AND
CONGRESS TODAY AND THEN.
>> Stephen: CAN I-- CAN I--
I REMEMBER IT.
AUGUST 8-- AUGUST 9 WAS THE RESIGNATION, 1974.
I CAN SUGGEST ANOTHER DIFFERENCE IS THAT NIXON, ON THESE TAPES IN
SECRET-- THERE WERE SECRET RECORDINGS OF HIM ADMITTING TO
BE PART OF THESE CRIMES, WHEREAS WITH THE FORMER PRESIDENT, THE
TAPES AREN'T SECRET.
HE SAID IT OUT LOUD.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> Stephen: IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY MULTIPLE TIMES AND FOR
YEARS LEADING UP TO THE EVENT THAT HE WOULDN'T ACCEPT THE
RESULTS.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> Stephen: IS THERE SOMETHING ABOUT THE SHAMELESSNESS OF THAT,
THAT PREVENTS THE MEMBERS OF HIS PARTY FROM DOING THE RIGHT THING
IN PUBLIC WHEN THEY ARE SECRETLY HOPING THE RIGHT THING HAPPENS?
>> BUT THERE'S SOMETHING INTERVENING HERE, AND IT'S
CALLED THE CONSTITUTION AND THE LAW.
>> Stephen: I'VE HEARD OF THOSE THINGS.
>> YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT THESE THINGS.
>> Stephen: YEAH.
>> SOMETIMES YOU THINK TRUMP HAS NOT.
BECAUSE THEY ARE VERY, VERY CLEAR THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN
OBLIGATIONS.
FOR INSTANCE, THE DAY BEFORE JANUARY 6 AND ON JANUARY 6,
TRUMP TALKS TO PENCE, HIS VICE PRESIDENT.
NOW, PENCE IS THE ONE WHO'S GOING TO BE LEADING THE CONGRESS
IN CERTIFYING WHO'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT.
AND HE BERATES PENCE.
HE SAID , YOU KNOW, "YOU-- I'M NOT GOING TO BE YOUR FRIEND
ANYMORE IF YOU DON'T DO THIS.
IF YOU DON'T DO THIS, YOU ARE BETRAYING US.
YOU ARE FINISHED.
YOUR LIFE-- YOU KNOW, YOUR POLITICAL LIFE IS OVER."
I MEAN IT IS RUMORED-- BUT NOT AUTHENTICATED-- THAT TRUMP SAID
TO HIM, "AND I'M NOT GOING TO INVITE YOU TO MY BIRTHDAY PARTY
DOWN IN MAR-A-LAGO."
( APPLAUSE )
LOOK AT THIS, IT IS A CRIME IF SOMEBODY TRIES TO GET SOMEBODY
TO DO SOMETHING ILLEGAL.
>> Stephen: WELL, THE REPORTING WAS THAT PENCE SAID,
"I DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE YOU PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES."
AND TRUMP SAID, "BUT WOULDN'T IT BE COOL IF YOU DID?"
>> AND HE DID USE THE WORD "COOL."
HE REALLY DID.
BUT HE REALLY THOUGHT THAT HE COULD OVERWHELM BOTH THE LAW AND
HIS VICE PRESIDENT.
AND IN THIS CASE, THIS REPUBLICAN STOOD HIS GROUND AND
SAID, "YOU CANNOT DO THIS, MR. PRESIDENT.
I WON'T DO YOUR BIDDING."
>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE ANOTHER BREAK, BUT WHEN I COME
BACK I WILL ASK BOB AND CARL ABOUT THEIR THOUGHTS ON THE
FUTURE OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.
STICK AROUND.
♪ ♪ ♪