Jordan Peterson Teaches How to have an Argument
Alright
(Reading slide) "We may say that the greater the communicative
congruence of experience, awareness and behavior on the part of
one individual," That's, that's a reference to the
same idea I was describing with regards to Yung, so
Let's say
You're coming to talk to me, and want things to go well
Well, I'm gonna have to more or less be one thing, because if I'm all over the place
You can't trust any continuity in what I say
there's no, and you
there's no reason for you to believe that I'm capable
of actually telling you
I'm capable of expressing anything that's true.
So the truth to something that emerges as a consequence
of getting yourself lined up, and beating all the
What would you call?
All the impurities out of your... out of your...
out of your...
Soul, for lack of a better word
You have to be integrated for that to happen, and you do that at least in part by
wanting to tell the truth. (Reading slide) "The more the ensuing
relationship will involve a tendency toward reciprocal
communication with the same qualities," So one of the things,
that being quite influenced by Rogers,
One of the things I try to do in my therapeutic sessions is first of all
to listen, to really listen, and then
well, while I listen, I watch and
While I'm listening, things will happen in my head.
You know, maybe I'll get a little image of something or
I'll get a thought or a question will emerge, and then I'll just tell the person
what that is, but it's sort of
directionless, It's not like I have a goal, except
that we're trying to make things better. I'm on the side of the
person... I'm on the side of the part of the
person that wants things to be better, not worse.
And so then we, those parts of us have a dialogue, and
the consequence of that dialogue is that certain things take place
and then I'll just tell the person what happened. And it isn't that I'm
right
that's not the point, the point is that they get to have an hour
where someone actually tells them what they think
"Here's the impact you're having on me"
"Now, this is making me angry. This is making me happy"
"This is really interesting"
"This reminds me of something that you said an hour ago that I don't quite understand"
And the whole
The whole point is not for
either person to make the proposition or convince
the other that their position is correct, but merely to have
an exchange of experience
about how things are set up
And it's extraordinarily useful for people because it's often difficult
for anyone to find anyone to talk to that will actually listen.
And so, another thing that's really strange about this listening is that
If you listen to people, they will tell you the weirdest bloody things
so fast, you just cannot believe it. So,
if you're having a conversation with someone and it's dull, it's because
you're stupid, that's why. You're not
listening to them properly because they're weird, they're like
wombats, or albatrosses, or rhinoceroses, or something like
they're strange creatures, and so if you were actually
communicating with them, and they were telling you how weird they really are
it would be... it would be anything but boring.
So, and you can ask questions, that's a really good way
of listening, but, you know, one of Rogers
points is, well, you have to be oriented properly to listen
And the orientation has to be,
"Look, what I want out of this conversation is that the place we both end up
is better than the place we left. That's it"
"That's it. That's what I'm after." And if you're not after that, you gotta think
"Why the hell wouldn't you be after that?" What could you
possibly be after that would be better than that?
You walk away smarter and more well equipped for the world
than you were before you had the conversation
and so does the other person. Well maybe if you're
bitter and resentful and angry and anxious and, you know,
generally annoyed at the world, then
that isn't what you want. You want the other person to walk away worse,
and you too cause you're full of revenge, but, you know
you'll get what you want if you do that. So,
(Reading slide) "We know from our research that such empathic understanding"
It's already defined that, "I want to hear you"
"I want to hear what you want to say so we can clarify it and move forward"
"I want to have your best interest in mind. And mine as well, but"
"you know, but both at the same time, your families too"
"if we can manage that. We're after making things better"
(Reading slide) "We know from research that such empathic understanding - understanding with a person, not about him - is such an effective approach
that it can bring about major changes in personality."
"Some of you may be feeling that you listen well to people
and that you have not seen such results. The chances are very
great that [you have not been listening in a manner]
that I have described. Fortunately, I can suggest
a little experiment you [can do] to test
the quality of your understanding. The next time you get into an argument
with your wife, or your friend, or a small group of friends, stop
the discussion for a moment and for an experiment,
institute this rule.
"Each person can speak up for himself only
after he has restated the ideas and feelings of
the previous speaker accurately,"
What accurately means is, they have to
agree with your restatement. Now that's
an annoying thing to do. Because if someone is talking to you
and you disagree with them, the first thing you want to do is take their argument
and make the stupidest possible thing out of it that you can,
that's the straw-man, and then demolish it
It's like... so then you can walk away feeling good about it
and you know, you primate dominance... dominated them
...really nicely, so. But,
that isn't what you do, you say, "Ok, well I'm going to take what you told me,
and maybe I'm even going to make your argument even stronger than the one you made,"
That's useful if you're dealing with someone you have to live with
because maybe they bloody well can't express themselves very well,
but they have something to say, so you
make their argument strong. Alright, then
you see what this would mean. (Reading slide) "It would mean that before
presenting your own point of view it would be necessary
for you to really achieve the other speaker's frame of reference
to understand his thoughts and feelings so well that you
could summarize them for him. Sounds simple, doesn't it?
But if you will try it, you will find that [it's the most
difficult thing that you've ever done]."
Ok, good, we'll leave it at that and then we'll see you on Tuesday.