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>> Welcome back to Boston.
The CUBE's coverage of AWS Re-inforce 2022.
This is our second live Re-inforce.
We did two in the middle that were all digital.
Aaron Brown is here as US AWS cyber leader for Deloitte
and Ryan Orsi the cloud foundation leader for partners
for Amazon Web Services.
Jen, welcome to The CUBE.
>> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks.
>> Nice to see you.
Tell us about the story of Deloitte in cyber
and then we'll get it to Deloitte cyber on AWS,
or maybe even start there.
>> Yeah, sure.
I mean, obviously Deloitte,
one of the largest cyber consultancies in the world,
we've been working with AWS for a very long time.
2013, I was involved with, you know,
the first Alliance agreement with them.
And then we've been in cloud managed services
about five years delivering workloads for clients.
We have over 200 clients on that platform
and then about a year and a half ago or so,
the MSSP program came
and it made a ton of sense to us, right?
To really level the playing field
and gave us a chance to really come out and demonstrate,
you know, our capability around MSSP.
>> The MSSP program,
I saw a slide yesterday in keynote
and in the analyst program was, you know,
there's technology partners,
there's MSSP partners.
Explain the MSSP partner.
>> Sure, sure.
So at the Database Partner Network, we break it down.
The program is called the level one MSSP Competency Program.
And it is for both those companies
that are sort of more of a software company
with a managed service
and those that are more of a pure service company,
it's for both, but it's the general concept,
it hosts the community of partners like Deloitte
with a concentrated talent pool around 24 by 7
monitoring and response of AWS security events.
>> So what is Deloitte?
Deloitte's not a pure software play.
It's not a pure services play anymore.
It's sort of a mixture.
>> Yeah, you know, asset enabled services, right?
It's the way that we look at it.
So, yeah, we're definitely not trying to compete
with software companies out there,
but we do have assets, right?
So we do everything as infrastructure as code
and that allows us to deploy our solutions
into client environments really quickly.
So where you might spend months
on third party tool integrations,
we leverage all native AWS tools in our standard offering
and we can deploy into a client
and get those services up and running in a couple of weeks.
>> So you sell your software as an integrated service,
is that correct?
You don't-
>> It's service, it's really is service.
We sell a metered service.
>> You don't sell your software separately?
>> No.
>> I should say it differently.
You include your software as part of the service,
is that right?
>> Yeah, it is.
But actually there's another element.
There are obviously some clients
who don't want to be in a managed service in perpetuity.
And so those same assets that I talked about
that we use for MSSP, you know, for the right clients,
we don't just give away everything to anybody
but for the right clients, for the right engagement,
we will work with clients to help them
build the capability that they need to run it themselves.
And our solution is built in a way where they can do that.
Right?
We have a base component
and a variable component to the solution
and we will impart those assets to a client, you know,
if the situation is right.
>> Okay.
So you'll actually transfer the software,
but would you charge for that?
>> Yeah, certainly,
but there's obviously a big service component
that goes into it.
Right?
>> And that's really where your expertise is.
>> Yeah, we don't have like a standard, you know, list price
but we'll work with clients to basically help them
build out that capability
because frankly the the market moves so fast
that you need a constant capability and engine
to update that solution.
It's not something that, you know, you're going to sell
and someone's just going to use that out of the box
for the next five years.
>> But a lot of the value that seems that Deloitte brings
is you don't run from customization.
You welcome that.
You, you know, if a client says, hey, I need this special
and that special, or whatever it is
you'll go attack.
You have the staff, the talent to attack that problem.
And you use software
in areas where you can have repeatability
and it helps you scale and be more productive.
Is that a fair way to think about it?
>> Yeah, that's right.
I mean, I guess one of the phrases that we use
is we like big hairy problems, right?
That's sort of our sweet spot.
The, you know, the very simple, hey,
I need a couple of guys to do a couple of things,
typically, we're not the right firm for that.
So, yes, we use the assets
cause we realize like, hey, you know,
out of everything that needs to be done,
there's a significant portion of this
that everybody needs more or less the same way.
And then we build that,
we build the automation to get it in
and then we have that variable component
working with clients to say, hey,
let's make this work in your environment.
We use a combination of AWS Native services,
but then, you know, some clients have investments
in third party tools and we can work with that.
>> So it's a perfect match for AWS
cause you guys are all about providing tools for builders
and here's some primitives, some APIs and Go,
we don't want that highly customized snowflake
for every single client.
>> Exactly.
I mean, that's what I feel like the partnership
with Deloitte is really bringing to the table for everybody
and our mutual customers
and builders out there that we both work with is again,
they don't run from complexity or customization
that security can be complex.
It can be hard, Deloitte's helping making it much easier.
The AWS partner network is helping
kind of bring the ecosystem together
and of software service, architectures that AWS recommend
for like a security best practice
around what to monitor, how to respond,
what kind of enriched data should be added
to that security finding and kind of pushing that out
through our partnerships with it such as Deloitte.
>> One of the things that, I mean, certainly big takeaway
from this event, the security tracks that reinvent,
previous Re-inforce events is AWS imparting,
educating its customers on best practice
and how tos and things that they should be thinking about,
you know, do this, don't do that.
In 2019, it was a lot about, hey guys,
there's this shared responsibility model
and kind of explaining that, we're way, way beyond that now,
should we think about Deloitte sort of as an extension
of that best practice AWS expertise
that can be applied at your clients?
I'll go to Deloitte
because I don't have the talent to deal with that.
I mean, I got talented people,
but I just don't have enough of them.
>> Exactly.
Yeah.
And that's really, you know,
our offerings tend to be comprehensive
across all the domains.
And like I said, the full life cycle of security operations
all the way from, you know, identify the issue
to resolve it and recover from it.
And, you know,
when we look at the shared responsibility model, you know,
we like to say, hey, we will take you
really far up that stack, that customer responsibility area,
you know, for our service,
we cover a significant portion of that landscape
on our client's behalf cause, you know,
what do they care about?
Deploying workloads, getting the application running, right?
Security is just another one of those important,
necessary things, but it just sort of standing between you
and the business value of your workload.
>> And your ideal target customer would be a large medium
up to a large enterprise or is all exclusively large or?
>> Definitely not exclusively large.
You know, the fact that we have all the automation
that we do,
we have a significant portion
of our security operations folks are offshore
allows us to be really competitive.
And so we're able to serve clients that maybe,
you know, in years past wouldn't have been
what you'd think of as traditional.
So like clients leveraging the marketplace, you know,
we're able to serve that market segment.
>> So billion dollar up kind of revenue?
Odes that sound about right? >> Yeah.
Even south of that a bit.
>> Okay.
So maybe half a billion or 500 million up.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
So thinking about that ideal sort of profile,
if you don't know, you don't know,
I'm going to ask you to guess.
>> Yeah.
>> What percent of those target companies, enterprises,
have a SOC?
Is it 100%, 50%, you know, or are you-
>> 75, 75% most so.
>> Okay.
So let's say 3/4.
>> Yeah.
>> So you compliment the SOC, right?
You're not the SOC, but you may be in some cases?
>> Depending, now we're talking about
it's a function of what their IT enterprise
landscape looks like.
If they're 100% AWS, yeah.
If you're born in the cloud startup and, you know,
you don't do anything else and we have, you know,
we have a few of those.
Right.
And they want to give us everything.
They're like, you know,
our security guys just going to kind of understand
what you guys are doing and feel good about it.
Yeah.
We do that.
But for the most, there is an existing SOC.
Right.
And so what we do is we leverage, you know, an ITSM software
to e-bond with our clients service management functions
so that when we're generating tickets,
they have full visibility to what's going on.
We're still resolving things on their behalf,
we need to communicate with some clients, right?
Cause a lot of security issues that need to get resolved
require engagement with the asset owner.
So we're not just a black box.
So we do have to talk to folks on the ground
at the client to resolve issues.
>> And that's actually one thing that really impressed me
to getting to know Aaron and his team more
and more throughout this journey together
in the partnership is they're not throwing alerts
over the fence to the customers SOC team saying,
well, here's some recommended remediation steps,
they're actually rolling up their sleeves
and doing some remediation themselves
and informing the customer.
This was taken care of for you.
I think that's really unique.
>> Yeah.
In addition to, you know, our solution obviously
has a bunch of auto-remediations, you know, that we do
as part of the solution.
>> So what's the engagement like?
What's the conversation like when people come to you?
Say I have a problem, it's blank, right?
What are the typical blank-
>> You know, a lot of it has been organizations
where there's either a business unit
that has kind of maybe off run and doing their own thing.
And, you know, it's only sort of come to light
with the compliance and security organization
inside the client that like, hey,
these guys maybe need some help.
And boy, we're really strapped.
We don't have the people cause talent's so tight
to go help these guys and make them get it right.
We're going to go ahead and keep them kind of off to the side.
And you know, we'll do this managed service
to help get that addressed.
And then another typical scenario
is when companies are acquired.
So, you know, organization buys a company
and they've got a preexisting.
Again, they look under the covers
and they're like, oh, these guys really need some help
because of the way that we deploy everything
as infrastructure as code really very quickly,
it's a great way to just kind of get it sorted.
It's a metered service.
So it's not some massive investment that they have to make.
We could just get it sorted out
until maybe they get a chance to process
and actually onboard that new entity
into their enterprise structure.
So as part of the MSSP program within AWS,
you got to be really good at understanding
how to utilize the AWS portfolio
of cyber security services natively.
So you do that, does that check the box
on everything you need or do clients typically say, no, no,
you got to integrate with all this other mess
that I have there.
Can you sweep that mess aside and say, hey,
I can do this all in the cloud
or what's that dynamic like?
>> The answer is, yes, both.
Right?
So, you know, typically clients
will have significant investments
in existing third party tools and then either politically
because of the investment or from a practical standpoint
it makes sense to integrate those.
Now that does slow down, you know, the deployment
and the customization a bit, but, you know,
and a lot of times that makes sense for the client.
>> Well, it gets hairy.
Like you said, you love these kind of hairy problems, right?
>> Yeah, that's right.
>> You run towards that.
>> That's right.
We run towards fire
>> And, Ryan, your focus on partners is all partners
or is it really the MSSPs or?
>> All partners, all kinds of partners
in the security space, right?
>> Right, right.
Yeah. Of course.
>> Software companies, professional services,
managed services.
And we're focused on trying to make the security easier
for both of our mutual customers here.
Right?
So that what you mentioned about best practices
and, you know, how do you tell what best practices are
per AWS service or third party software
that's operating in an AWS environment?
That's part of what our team does
is we create these partner programs.
There's a very detailed,
very prescriptive technical checklist
that out internal security experts are going through
with Deloitte folks, for example,
as a part of their membership and the level one MSSP program
to make sure that, right?
Those best practices
which could be fresh off the AWS documentation truck
are built into their services.
And the reason those best practices exist
is for a for a good reason.
They're built, tried and tested, you know,
in our own environments
before they reach the documentation website.
But all of that is incorporated
into that whole kind of validated checklist
that we do together.
So it's a great way to make sure
that operations from partners like Deloitte,
software delivered, customization delivered,
aligns with what we're able to see
from just our Amazon culture
of being so customer obsessed and really listening
to all of those very specific challenges they might have
that the customer will have at different points
in their cloud journey.
Those challenges are baked directly
into key technical requirement criteria
that Deloitte's teamed up with us to go achieve.
>> What are you seeing at the macro, Aaron?
When we talked to practitioners where we'll survey,
we have a survey partner called ETR
and they'll do spending surveys
coming into the year of CIOs and IT buyers,
we're expecting 8%, eight to 8 1/2% budget growth,
post Ukraine, inflation, Fed tightening, you know,
the tech lash, all that.
It's dialed down a bit, it's still pretty robust it's 6%
and security still remains the number one priority.
And we've seen a little bit of momentum deceleration
even in security spend across the board,
but not anything, you know, tragic.
Are you seeing the same
or are you seeing security budgets
kind of where they were expected to be
at the beginning of the year?
>> Yeah, you know, I haven't seen it decline.
I mean, I think the fact of the matter is
for all the things that we talked about before, right?
Basically the skill shortages and just the coordination
with other cloud programs,
there's a tremendous backlog of stuff that needs to be done.
And, you know, enterprises have more appreciation now
for the need for all, you know, all the various, you know,
ransomware things that have happened and others that, hey,
they need to get a handle on the security
and their environment.
And so I think a lot of what's been going on
in the last year, the reason it hasn't been faster,
hasn't been for a lack of appetite.
It's just been a lack of skills and process to do it.
>> Has the business case changed?
And the variables maybe the same, but it used to be, hey,
if you don't do this, you're exposed.
Okay.
Here's the fear of getting, you know, infiltrated
and then it's going to became if you want to quantify it,
it's like, okay, what's the expected loss
with, and without, you know,
the kind of think of insurance terms.
Is the business case shifting with digital
toward this is a fundamental component of monetization
in order to be able to monetize,
you have to ensure this level security.
Are we there yet?
>> Yeah, I think so.
I don't think anyone's arguing
whether it's, you know, needed or not.
Right.
So now it's a question of, hey,
and I think CJ Moses had a good slide
in the opening yesterday where he was saying, you know,
was it, make the secure path,
the path of least resistance.
Right?
And so that's a big part of, you know,
how we deliver our solution.
We really want to make it easy for the enterprise
to absorb the security services that we have.
Right?
And that's really critical.
I think that's where the focus is,
is make it easier to do security
because the value comes right along with it.
>> All right.
I'll give you each the final word, Ryan, you go first
then Aaron kind of put a bumper sticker on Re-inforce 2022.
>> It's not slowing down.
It's only picking up in terms of innovation, software tools,
operational processes, and some of the unique ways
that all these tools are tied together.
Third party, Native AWS, consulting,
the way these services come together,
it's only accelerating.
It's been pretty exciting
to see some of the innovation here
this time at this Re-inforce.
>> Right, Aaron, what do you say?
>> Yeah, I would agree.
I mean, just the breadth of capabilities,
the new announcements by AWS
of the capabilities in their solution stack.
I mean, for me, you know, I just kind of wonder
like when does it narrow or when does it settle down
and I know that that's not now.
>> Keep waiting.
>> Yeah.
>> But, yeah, I think, you know, we will continue to see
you know, just rapid acceleration
and new features and services that...
>> I often say the next decade at cloud
ain't going to to be like the last.
So gentlemen, thanks for coming on The CUBE.
It's great to see you.
>> Thanks for having us. Thank you everything.
>> All right, thank you for watching.
Keep it right there.
This is Dave Vellante for The CUBE.
We'll be back right after this short break
from Boston AWS Re-inforce 2022.
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