>>> WELCOME BACK TO "HARDBALL" WHERE THERE’S BREAKING NEWS IN
THE CASE AGAINST PAUL MANAFORT
WHO WAS CONVICTED OF EIGHT
CRIMINAL COUNTS JUST LAST MONTH
IN VIRGINIA.
IN VIRGINIA. NOW HE FACES ADDITIONAL CHARGES
IN A COURT IN WASHINGTON, D.C.
ABC NEWS IS REPORTING JUST
TONIGHT THAT, QUOTE, MANAFORT
HAS TENTATIVELY AGREED TO A PLEA
DEAL WITH SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT
MUELLER THAT WILL HEAD OFF HIS
UPCOMING TRIAL.
UPCOMING TRIAL. THAT DEALS WITH THE TRIAL COMING
UP THAT WAS SET TO TAKE PLACE
THIS MONTH.
THIS MONTH. QUOTE, THE DEAL IS EXPECTED TO
BE ANNOUNCED IN COURT FRIDAY,
THAT’S TOMORROW, BUT IT REMAINS
UNCLEAR WHETHER MANAFORT HAS
AGREED TO COOPERATE WITH
PROSECUTORS OR IS SIMPLY
CONCEDING TO A GUILTY PLEA WHICH
WOULD ALLOW HIM TO AVOID THE
EXPENSE AND STRESS OF TRIAL.
REUTERS ALSO SAYING A POSSIBLE
DEAL, QUOTE, IS CLOSE BUT NOT
THERE YET.
THERE YET. SEPARATELY RUDY GIULIANI SAID HE
WAS CONFIDENT MANAFORT WILL NOT
FLIP ON TRUMP.
THERE’S NO FEAR THAT PAUL
MANAFORT WOULD COOPERATE AGAINST
THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE THERE’S
NOTHING TO COOPERATE ABOUT AND
WE LONG AGO EVALUATED HIM AS AN
HONORABLE MAN.
HONORABLE MAN. JOINING ME NOW IS WASHINGTON
BUREAU CHIEF FOR MOTHER JONES
AND AUTHOR OF "RUSSIAN
ROULETTE."
ROULETTE." GREAT BOOK OUT THERE ABOUT THE
RUSSIAN INVESTIGATION.
RUSSIAN INVESTIGATION. I GO DIRECTLY TO MR. BUTLER.
WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU WHEN
YOU HEAR THIS?
>> IT MEANS THAT MANAFORT IS
ASKING HIMSELF WHETHER HE GETS A
BETTER DEAL FROM DONALD TRUMP OR
ROBERT MUELLER.
ROBERT MUELLER. IF IT’S DONALD TRUMP, THAT MEANS
THAT HE’S CONFIDENT THAT TRUMP
WILL PARDON HIM AND THEN HE
MAKES -- HE PLEADS GUILTY IN
ORDER TO AVOID THE EXPENSE OF A
TRIAL, A SECOND TRIAL WHICH
WOULD COST HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS
OF DOLLARS IN ADDITION TO THE
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS
THAT HE OWES FOR THE FIRST
TRIAL.
TRIAL. THE OTHER POSSIBILITY IS THAT HE
DECIDES THAT HE CAN’T COUNT ON
DONALD TRUMP FOR ANYTHING
INCLUDING A PARDON AND SO HE
MAKES A DEAL WITH MUELLER.
BUT MUELLER SAYS WHAT YOU GOT.
MUELLER ISN’T GOING TO BE
WILLING TO MAKE A DEAL WITH
MANAFORT UNLESS MANAFORT CAN
GIVE HIM THE GOODS ON DONALD
TRUMP.
TRUMP. >> THEY’VE BEEN SPENDING UP TO
FIVE HOURS NEGOTIATING THIS.
IS THAT WHAT THEY’RE
NEGOTIATING?
NEGOTIATING? WHAT YOU GOT?
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. MUELLER IS GOING TO SAY
SOMETHING HAS TO BE IN IT FOR
ME.
ME. WE ALREADY CONVICTED YOU OF
EIGHT FELONIES IN VIRGINIA.
THIS IS ACTUALLY AN EASIER CASE
IN D.C. BECAUSE IT’S ABOUT
FAILURE TO REGISTER AS A
LOBBYIST.
LOBBYIST. YOU EITHER DID OR YOU DIDN’T.
MUELLER’S SAYING YOU CAN GO TO
JAIL FOR ANOTHER TEN YEARS OR
YOU CAN HELP US MAKE OUR CASE.
>> HE WOULDN’T GIVE HIM A BREAK
ON THE SENTENCES HE’S ALREADY
GOT, THE CHARGES HE’S ALREADY
FOUND GUILTY OF IN VIRGINIA.
HE CAN DO A BIG BUNDLE OF THANK
YOU.
YOU. WHAT’S MANAFORT KNOW ABOUT
TRUMP?
TRUMP? CAN YOU TELL FROM YOUR
REPORTING, DAVID?
REPORTING, DAVID? >> WELL, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF
AREAS.
AREAS. I MEAN, HE MAY KNOW ABOUT STUFF
PRIOR TO THE CAMPAIGN, BUT
DURING THE CAMPAIGN REMEMBER
THIS GUY NAMED GEORGE POP -- POP
PAPADOPOULOS.
PAPADOPOULOS. ONE OF THE EARLIER FILINGS IN
THE CASE, IT SAYS THAT MANAFORT
KNEW ABOUT THAT.
SO MANAFORT ALSO SAT IN ON THE
TRUMP TOWER MEETING IN WHICH
THERE WAS IF NOT COLLUSION, AN
ATTEMPT TO COLLUDE.
THERE’S ALSO A CASE OF DONALD
TRUMP JR. LYING PUTTING OUT A
STATEMENT ABOUT THAT MEETING
THAT DONALD TRUMP NOW ADMITS HE
DICTATED.
DICTATED. THIS COULD BE AN OBSTRUCTION OF
JUSTICE ISSUE THAT MANAFORT
MIGHT KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT.
>> WOW.
>> WOW. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS,
PAUL?
PAUL? THIS IS A LOT OF STUFF.
IT AFFECTS THE FAMILY.
IT AFFECTS THE PRESIDENT.
HE COULD INCRIMINATE THEM ALL
POTENTIALLY.
POTENTIALLY. >> HE COULD.
SO THE QUESTION IS HOW
TRUSTWORTHY HE IS NOT AS A
WITNESS.
WITNESS. HE’S NEVER GOING TO SHOW UP IN A
COURTROOM.
COURTROOM. BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT INFORMATION
HE HAS, AGAIN, THE WAY IT WORKS
IS HIS LAWYERS -- MANAFORT’S
LAWYER MAKE A PROFFER.
HE SAYS THIS IS WHAT WE WOULD
TELL YOU.
TELL YOU. THIS IS WHAT WE WOULD TESTIFY TO
THE GRAND JURY IF YOU GIVE US A
DEAL.
DEAL. MUELLER EVALUATES THAT AND THEN
DECIDES WHETHER THERE’S ENOUGH
IN IT FOR HIS SIDE, FOR THE
SPECIAL COUNSEL TO GO FORWARD.
>> POLITICO IS ALSO REPORTING
ATTORNEYS FOR MANAFORT HAVE BEEN
IN TOUCH WITH TRUMP’S LEGAL
TEAM.
TEAM. GIULIANI CONFIRMED THAT TRUMP’S
LAWYERS AND MANAFORT’S LAWYERS
HAVE BEEN IN REGULAR CONTACT.
WELL, GIULIANI CONFIRMED HE
SPOKE WITH MANAFORT’S LEAD
DEFENSE AFTER RETURNED IN THAT
VIRGINIA TRIAL A FEW WEEKS AGO.
BUT THE FORMER MAYOR WOULDN’T
SAY WHAT HE DISCUSSED WITH THE
MANAFORT TEAM.
MANAFORT TEAM. BACK TO YOU, PAUL.
>> ONCE AGAIN, WE SEE THE TRUMP
DEFENSE STRATEGY OUT OF THE MOB
PLAYBOOK.
PLAYBOOK. YOU SEE THESE JOINT DEFENSE
AGREEMENTS IN ORGANIZED CRIME
CASES AND STREET GANG CASES.
WHAT THEY ALLOW LAWYERS TO DO IS
TO COORDINATE SO THAT ALL --
EVERYTHING THAT’S SAID IS
PROTECTED BY ATTORNEY/CLIENT
PRIVILEGE.
PRIVILEGE. WHAT THEY ALSO ALLOW IS FOR THE
DEFENDANTS TO GET THEIR STORIES
STRAIGHT.
STRAIGHT. TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY’S ON
THE SAME PAGE.
THE OTHER SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS
IS IT MEANS THAT TRUMP
UNDERSTANDS THAT HIS INTERESTS
ARE ALIGNED WITH MANAFORT’S
WHICH MAKES IT --
>> BUT IT’S COLLUSION.
THIS IS A SEPARATE -- LEGAL
COLLUSION BETWEEN MANAFORT AND
DONALD TRUMP.
DONALD TRUMP. CORRECT ME IF I’M WRONG, PAUL,
BUT IN FEW OF THESE CASES DO ONE
OF THE POSSIBLE DEFENDANTS HAVE
THE ABILITY TO PARDON THE
DEFENDANT.
DEFENDANT. >> I’M NOT A LAWYER.
I ADMIT YOU’RE THE EXPERT.
I GET THE THING THAT SOMEWHERE
DOWN THE LINE OF ’19, THE BIG
QUESTION IS ARE YOU GOING TO
PROTECT YOUR FAMILY WITH PARDONS
AND KILL THE CHANCE OF GETTING