- What do you say when your friends leave your church?
How the hell should I know?
(gentle music)
Mended Light.
(laughing)
clearly I'm a professional.
So I'm Jonathan Decker,
licensed therapist with Mended Light.
I'm also a man of faith and like many people
in this country, I was raised in a church,
lots of different churches.
And the thing about churches is we all kind of settle
into the one we feel is the right one, right?
We settle into the path that we feel
is the closest to the divine.
And some churches are super chill,
come and go as you please, hey, we're happy
if you find the path that you're looking for.
But more often I find churches are very territorial, right?
We are the closest to the truth.
We are the closest to the way and the light.
We are the ones that you wanna stick with.
And there is a lot of strain in families
and in friendships when people say, hey,
my conscience and my belief
and my center direct me somewhere else.
- This is the truth.
- Whether it's joining a different church,
whether it's leaving a religion entirely,
and a lot of people lose those that they love
because those that they love see the world differently
than they do, and I think that's unnecessary.
My view of God is that that's not the way to be.
I mean, I think if we boil it down,
whether you believe in a higher power or not,
the highest power in the universe is love.
♪ Love ♪
Which sounds super cheesy and like a hallmark card
and I get it, but if you are a believer, God is love.
So what I said isn't that controversial.
And if you're not, if to you, there is no God,
or God is unknowable
or you're searching out your spirituality.
What could be greater than practicing compassion
and kindness and integrity and decency
towards one another and serving one another
and lifting one another?
What could be better for the world?
Even if this is it, right?
Even if we just live and we die,
and if nothing we do matters.
And the only thing that matters is what we do,
because this is it, we gotta make our difference here.
And if there is any eternity afterwards,
how important is it that we lift and help one another.
We get locked into this way of thinking, which is, well,
if you don't go to my church, then you're missing out.
And most people who go to a church think that,
that's why they go to whatever church they go to,
because it really works for them, because what they see
and what they get out of it is really, really powerful
and shapes their life.
And if someone leaves, if you are very,
very entrenched in your beliefs,
you may no longer know how to relate to those who leave
or those who choose a different path.
- We're not friends anymore.
- So what do you say to someone who leaves your faith?
Start with, I love you, not, I love you and you could say,
I hope you stay, but what if you don't.
I love you even if you don't stay,
I love you for following your conscience.
The first thing to recognize on your end
is that most people leave churches,
not because they're sinners.
You know, if you're going biblical,
we're all sinners anyway.
(laughing)
but people don't leave a church because they're sinners
and they've lost the light in their lives.
More often, they leave a church
because they don't agree with the doctrine.
They have questions they can't find answers to.
And for a lot of believers,
this will keep the faith and keep reading
and keep studying, and keep praying.
And that works for a lot of people.
And for others, it's not enough.
The people who have left my faith,
see I stay out of integrity and hear me out,
because they leave out of integrity as well.
- I agree.
- I stay because it feels right to me,
I stay because it's my core, it's my center.
I stay because it makes sense to me
and the things that don't make sense to me,
I'm willing to make that trade.
People who leave, leave out of integrity.
I stay because I believe it's the right thing to do.
They leave because they believe it's the right thing to do.
Of all places, I found inspiration
for this particular problem from Captain America, Civil War,
the great Marvel universe,
where the heroes fight each other
because they're on opposing sides of an important issue
and friendships break apart and everything,
and how they start to heal.
I love the letter that Steve Rogers sends Tony Stark
at the end of that film.
And he says, I wish that we agreed, I really do.
But you were doing what you believe is right.
That's all you can do, that's all any of us can do.
So if you need me, I'm here.
That was so powerful to me because that struck me
as here you have two people who are really close,
who are walking the same path,
and then there's a divergence in viewpoints
and it almost broke them.
But what's healing is the recognition.
You're choosing a different path.
And instead of thinking how wrong you are
and how right I am, I'm gonna choose
to see this as Captain America does.
We should always follow Captain America.
It's just a good idea, as Captain America does,
is that we're both doing what we believe is right.
And I respect that, right?
You're doing what you believe is right.
And I respect that.
So what do you say to someone who leaves your faith?
Well, you probably hope they'll come back, right?
Most people do, no matter what the religion is.
If people leave, you hope they come back
because you believe in it and you want them
to enjoy what you're enjoying.
And you want them perhaps to have the rewards
that you hope to have, you know, here after.
The fact is number one, nobody is shamed.
Nobody's shamed into coming back.
Nobody's guilted into coming back.
And if they are, it doesn't last,
people only come back because they're loved into it.
People only come back because they are shown
that they'll be loved no matter what.
And not just like felt loved,
but express loved and lived loved.
And staying means nothing unless you're free to leave.
It's just like a relationship.
So one, if your motivation is for them to come back,
love them, if you love someone, set them free, right?
Like Sting used to sing.
♪ Let love free ♪
The second thing is you have to respect
that they may not see the world the way you see it.
And they may not choose the path that you choose.
And your primary motivation actually,
shouldn't be, can't be for them to come back.
Your primary motivation is love is the highest power
in the universe, I'm going to love.
I'm going to try and understand
why this path makes sense to you, why it's beautiful to you.
Why you get peace from it, why you get joy from it.
It's different from mine, so it's foreign to me,
help me to understand it.
What do you say to someone who's left your faith?
Help me to see what you see.
A lot of people are scared to do that.
They're afraid to have their worldview challenged.
They're afraid that somebody could actually find peace
on a different path, because if you can do that,
then what does that say about the path I'm walking?
Is it not the path to peace?
I got a great lesson in this from my wife,
who said that I'm going to respect
everyone's spiritual journey.
I'm gonna respect everyone's right to choose their path
because that's what I want people to do for me.
When they don't agree with the path that I'm walking,
the church that I belong to, the choices that I make.
If people came to me and said, help me understand,
I'm not looking to convert.
I just wanna understand why this path brings you peace,
why this path brings you joy.
Why this is the path you choose when there are many others,
I would love to have that conversation.
So I try to give that to other people, it's just respect.
I've had friends and family who have left the church
that I go to, which is, you know,
in our culture, a pretty big deal.
Everyone's really worried about you, and bridges get burnt.
Bridges get burned because there's not that mutual respect.
There's not that mutual.
I don't even like the word tolerance
'cause tolerance is like, I'm gonna put up with it.
I much prefer understanding, mutual understanding.
I've had some people, I had a family member leave our faith
and come back and they didn't come back
because they were loved in, but loved back,
but loving them and accepting their right to choose
played a key role in them feeling free
to come back because there wasn't gonna be anybody who said,
I told you so and there wasn't gonna be anybody who said,
oh good, you know, we prayed you back,
and we were really worried about you.
This person's family, my family, my relatives
were all the entire time, you're family,
you see the world differently than us.
That's okay, you choose something
different from us, that's okay.
We love you and we want you here.
And we value your perspective, that bitterness wasn't there,
that ax to grind went away.
I've had other people who've left
and they've never come back,
you know, and more power to them.
You know, that's their path to walk,
but there's peace in the family
the more that is respected and there is,
I've also seen it go the other way.
I've seen it where there isn't respect,
where there isn't understanding,
where there's just desperate pleas
to get them to come back, where there's just warning them
to turn the ship around before it's too late, you know,
urging them to repent, urging them to reconsider.
And the fact is, if the situation were reversed
and someone joined my faith from another, you know,
if their family were treating them that way
for joining our faith, we wouldn't like that.
We think there are a bunch of bigots,
but when we're the bigots, we don't see it.
Educating yourself on different worldviews,
different beliefs.
For me, I'm a Christian, and what does that word even mean?
To me, it means someone who believes
in the teachings of Jesus Christ, right?
And who accepts Christ as their savior.
A lot of doctrine, you go from church to church,
there's a lot of differences.
And some people tell me that I'm not a Christian.
And they especially say that when I tell them
the value that I find in Buddhism.
(laughing)
They especially say that when I tell them
that I visited Hindu temples, right.
Or Islamic mosques, and that I've wanted to learn
from the beliefs and the spirituality of other people,
my feeling is that if your faith can't sustain
being exposed to other viewpoints, then it's pretty weak.
I love something that Gandhi said.
And this I think ties into when friends leave your faith,
whatever your faith is,
Gandhi was accused of being a Christian, and he says,
I take that as both an insult and a compliment.
An insult because my enemies think
that I am capable of secretly being anything
and a compliment because it means that they see
that I can appreciate the virtues of Christianity.
He says, if I had to base it
just on the sermon on the Mount,
I would say, yes, I am a Christian, right?
He says, but I don't agree with the doctrine
and the beliefs and the practices of Christians.
And so I'm not a Christian, but he saw the beauty in it.
I studied the Quran several years ago.
And one thing that really struck me,
'cause everyone around here talks about Islam
and voices in with opinions on Islam.
And I thought, none of us have any idea
what we're talking about.
I should know.
I should know what I'm talking about
before I have an opinion.
So I read the Quran and I was struck
with just how benevolent
and loving Islam is towards Jews and Christians,
which is something I really didn't know how much fellowship
and brotherhood and kinship
Islam has towards Jews and Christians.
No, I don't believe in everything in the Quran,
that's why I'm not a Muslim,
but that doesn't mean I couldn't see the beauty
and the value in Islam.
And it allows me to connect with Muslims when I meet them,
instead of being fearful
or having no common ground to talk about.
I realize, we have a lot of common ground.
When someone leaves your faith, seek the common ground.
What do you still have in common?
I guarantee you, even if they have no religion anymore,
they still believe in honesty.
They still believe in kindness.
They still believe in integrity and decency
and trying to do good in the world.
That is almost everyone I've ever met.
So join with them on that, now,
if you're enjoying this Ask A Therapist series,
tell me what you'd like for me to respond to.
What questions do you have,
leave them in the comments below.
How do you handle someone leaving your faith tradition?
Or if you have left your old one, how did people handle it?
Let us know in the comments below,
if you're enjoying this series,
I wanna direct you to this next video right here,
which is how to set boundaries
in a long distance relationship.
And if you're with this or really with anything else,
we've got a team of therapist standing by,
ready to help you.
If you go to the description,
you'll find links to set a complimentary
15 minute discovery call to explore
whether or not we're a good fit for each other.
As always, like, subscribe and click that bell.
That bell's important folks, because that bell
means you get a notification every single time
there's a new video.
So you don't miss anything, it's wonderful.
So until next time, I'm Jonathan Decker with Mended Light.
This has been Ask A Therapist and I'll see you next time.
(gentle music)
(singing)
Here it comes.
The blessed next video has arrived.
Marvelous.