How is it possible that I can be attacked relentlessly hundreds of times a day
According to Republican congressman Devin Nunes
the abuse he's endured on Twitter
is of a breadth and scope that no human being should ever have to bear
and suffer in their whole life.
He's been called a presidential fluffer and swamp rat
a treasonous shitbag, a Putin shill, a feckless cunt,
an unscrupulous, craven, backstabbing, charlatan and traitor,
and voted most likely to commit treason in high school.
Now this California lawmaker, and Trump ally is suing Twitter for 250 million dollars
for quote: 'emotional distress and mental suffering and injury to his personal and professional reputations.'
He's also asking the court to force Twitter to reveal the true identities
behind Twitter accounts Devin Nunes Mom, Devin Nunes Cow, fire Devin Nunes and Devin Nunes grapes.
So on what grounds can an elected official sue a social media platform
for speech that offends him?
Twitter is not merely a website, the lawsuit alleges,
it is the modern town square, a public forum with a private owner.
Nunez says that the lawsuit is also part of a strategy
to fight back against lies in the press related to the Russia investigation.
Named in the quarter of a billion dollar lawsuit, right alongside Devin Nunes Mom and Devon Nunes Cow
is Liz Mayer a Republican strategist and self-described libertarian
who angered Nunez for, among other things,
delivering a pair of yellow New Balances to his congressional office
after he ran out of a committee hearing on the Russia scandal.
I sat down with Mair to talk about the lawsuit and what it means for free speech on the Internet.
Liz thanks for joining us you are named in as one of the parties in this suit the other three parties are Twitter the
Company and then two anonymous Twitter accounts one is Devin hoon as his mom. The other one is Devin Nunez is cow. Yes
How does it feel to be named as a party in a lawsuit?
Alongside a fake cow. Well, I first of all let me say that I'm I'm a little jealous of the cow
I have to be honest
apparently the cows Twitter followers have now surpassed the number of Twitter followers that Devin Nunez has
Mine personally have not
so I would of course appeal to all of your viewers and
Of your readers to please follow me so that I can feel better about my standing on social media relative to the cow
That isn't really a cow because this is just terribly upsetting for me that I'm not as popular as they fake farmyard animal
so this is on the one hand incredibly absurd and
It's also kind of serious. It's it's very serious
I I joke about the cow portion of it, but this is very serious because at the end of the day what this lawsuit
Fundamentally is about is about free speech and First Amendment rights in this country
Which I believe are foundational to the Republic that we have at the end of the day
The reason that we have the First Amendment is because the framers firmly believed in the right of American citizens to criticize their government
And in this case, what we actually have is a sitting member of the US government a sitting member of the US House of Representatives
Who is using litigation as a cudgel to silence and stifle free speech of an American citizen who he happens to find bothersome?
and not just to stifle free speech but
To stop you from mocking him and that seems to be a big part of this this actually
Talks about all the mean things that were said about Devin Nunez on Twitter some of them by you
others by these anonymous accounts and it really seems like
an attempt to prohibit
online mocking I feel like fundamentally what we have with this lawsuit is ample evidence of the fact that
representative Nunez is
probably in flagrant violation of the oath that he took as a
Member of Congress all of them take an oath to support and defend the Constitution
The Constitution is an entire document. You cannot pick and choose it is not a cafeteria
document right if you support and pretend the
Constitution you are also supporting and defending and taking an oath to support and defend the First Amendment and the Bill of Rights and the
reality
is that the First Amendment protects my right to free speech and
It protects his right to free speech and it protects Donald Trump's right to free speech and it protects your right to free speech
it protects the right of to suppress speech of every single person who's going to watch that interview and this is
absolutely fundamental
to our democracy in our
Republic and it's really concerning to me as an American citizen that he's taken this oath to support and defend the US
Constitution and
Yet he clear does not believe in an expansive view of the First Amendment that I think the framers very clearly did
Otherwise, they wouldn't have written it to support pamphleteers and to protect pamphleteers who were criticizing their government
So this is not just about Devin Nunez
This is also it seems to me about Donald Trump and the suit
Notes that you were the sponsor of the make America awesome pact is a super PAC designed to mock the president
During his campaign for president for the presidency in 2015 2016
Devin Nunez is somebody who is a staunch supporter of Donald Trump
Do you think that this is an attack not just on speech rights?
But on the right of citizens to organize around political causes
In the way that the make America awesome pact it I can't speak to what Devin Nunez does motivations are
I don't know what goes on in Devin Nunez his head
I think it would be interesting to find out of course, but what I will say about this is you know
First of all what I did in 2016 just to clarify that in the context of the Republican primary
Donald Trump was not who I wanted the Republican Party of which I am a member
And I've been a member for much longer than he has. It's not who I wanted to nominate
And there was a lot of information
That we dug up about Donald Trump had moved out there because we believed that Republican voters had a right to know about
The candidates that were running in the primary and make an informed decision. And again, that is an exercise of free speech
What I think is really interesting about this lawsuit though. Is that given?
The Devin Nunez clearly has a very different view of the applicable law here including the First Amendment
I think that the the sort of precedent that he could potentially set here
You know, I think I'm on the same side as Donald Trump here
We've had a lot of people criticizing Donald Trump on Twitter recently for his tweets
I firmly stand with the president in terms of exerting his rights to free speech I
Disagree with him on some policy matters on others. I strongly agree with him
You know, I take issue with some of his ethics and his personal behavior
There are some phraseology that I would not personally use because it's just not my style or I think it's particularly rude or inoffensive
but at the end of the day
we have a First Amendment and that First Amendment applies to Donald Trump just as much as it applies to me just
As much as it applies to you just as much as it applies to representative Nunez and what's really key here
Is that representative Nunez has taken an oath of office to defend that first amendment?
and I don't think that he's defending my right of speech free speech or
Defending Donald Trump's right of free speech and I think that's a problem as an American citizen and a libertarian Republican
So let's talk a little bit more generally about the free speech issue
Then it strikes me as somewhat ironic that on the one hand
Nunez is saying well my right to free speech is being suppressed and
He is saying this in a lawsuit that is attempting to suppress your right to free. Speech
How do you square those two things what's going on here?
well
I think again you would have to ask him to come on and actually square that circle and explain to you
What is going on here from my perspective, you know as a civil libertarian and a libertarian Republican
I personally believe in all of the Bill of Rights and all of our Constitution and
Interpreting liberties very broadly because I think that is fundamental to a free society
You know, I'm a British citizen as well as an American citizen and one of the reasons I love my other country
but one of the reasons that I choose to live live here is
Because we have a more expansive and established system of liberties and Freedoms and as a libertarian
I hold my liberty and freedom absolutely dearly as I believe the majority of other Americans do and so from my perspective
It's really important that we do defend free speech even if it's speech that we disagree with her
We find personally hurtful or we find rude
I think it's absolutely essential that we defend that because I simply don't believe that
America is what it was designed to be if
we do not have that defense in place and if people do not subscribe to that fundamental principle and
Apparently representative Nunez and I have very different views about the right to free speech and about the First Amendment
But I certainly would hope that most Americans would have the same you if it that I do
Because I believe it is one of the things that has led to us being the greatest country on earth
the greatest force for freedom and liberty on earth and a country that we should all be incredibly proud to be citizens of
You're describing this as an attack not only on your speech but on the speech rights of every citizen including President Trump
Yes, I do
I do believe that president Trump's rights of free speech are under siege for many quarters
And that's something that I have a real problem with I'm not necessarily a fan of the president
He was not my preferred choice of nominee in 2016. I think that's been abundantly clear
I have also said that when it comes to the November 20 2011
You know
I want to be clear about that
but setting aside any of those political
Calculations that anybody may make the fact of the matter is whether you like Donald Trump or you don't like Donald Trump
we have a first amendment in this country and it applies to him just as much as it applies to anybody else and
That's something that I think really is important for everybody to understand free speech rights in
Enlarge are under siege from many many quarters
And you know my First Amendment rights are obviously extremely important for me to defend in this context, but I think it's really important
Especially for people who are going to be watching this interview
Who I'm pretty sure agree with me about the importance of construing civil liberties broadly and maintaining as much freedom and liberty as is humanly
possible within our society
It's really important that all of those people step up and I'll just add here because I'm sort of duty-bound to do so
That if people want to support my legal defense in this matter
They can go to swamp accountability project calm and they can donate there
The reality of the situation is that we are probably going to incur some look at some legal costs
I don't know how much in the context of this litigation but if people believe in free speech and they want to defend the First
Amendment and the right to free speech
That is one way that they can help do so in addition to their own behavior and their own
attitudes on a day to day basis
Those are the consequences for you specifically but draw this out a little bit if this suit were to succeed
This is a quarter of a billion dollar lawsuit against you Twitter and these fake accounts if this suit were to succeed
What are the stakes what would happen? What would be the upshot of a suit like this being successful?
Well again
I think you probably need to bring somebody who's actually a litigator and a First Amendment and a
Constitutional or public law litigator on to your program to actually discuss that in specific. I am English qualified solicitor
I am NOT a US qualified lawyer
Nor do I think it's a good idea to get into talking about the merits or demerits of this particular lawsuit
But what I will say is as an American citizen, I think again when we start constraining civil liberties
That is really really a risk to the fundamental nature of our republic and people need to ask themselves on a daily
basis and this is true regardless of what period of time we're in and who's in office and who's in power and who's in the
Majority and who's in the minority and what's going on in courts people need to ask themselves
What kind of society do they want to live in do they want to live in a free society?
Which is what America has traditionally been where we have those expansive liberties unlike many other countries
Or do we want to constrain that and from my perspective?
we do not want to constrain that and I think that if we do start doing that whether we're talking about the First Amendment or
Many other amendments for that matter, I think that we're headed towards an America that is not what the framers intended
It is not reflective of our traditional cultural values
It is not reflective of most Americans philosophies and ideals and I think frankly it would be very problematic for the country
Final question. Do you know if Devin Nunez actually has a cow. Ooh
I don't offhand
You would have to google around about this and maybe take a look at something like his financial disclosure forms
I do know that he is invested in a winery dad. I do know Liz. Thanks so much for talking with me today
Thank you so much for having me