WINFREY: In 1978, Chicago police found the remains of at
least 27 bodies buried beneath John Wayne Gacy's house.
To this day, Gacy is one of America's most notorious serial
killers, killing 33 young men and boys.
His sister Karen visited him fairly regularly
before his arrest. Did you ever notice a
foul odor or anything suspicious at the house?
KAREN: Well, when they first moved in,
there was always this kind of musty smell.
It was a real dark type house and it was always musty-smelling.
WINFREY: So when he was first arrested,
did you believe that he was capable of killing
all of those boys and young men?
KAREN: No. I couldn't believe it the night
I got the phone call at 2:00 in the morning.
And it was Sam Amirante, his attorney, that called me.
And he said, "We have John, and he's been arrested."
And I said, "Can I talk to him?"
And he said yes, and he put him on the phone.
I said, "John, did you do this?"
And very--not very audible,
but he said, "Yeah." I was in shock.
I just sat there and didn't know what to do.
My husband was standing there by that time just looking at me.
And we cried and we hugged, and neither of us
could believe it, because it wasn't the person we knew.
He was always good and kind and always taking care of us.
I--I still--it was just hard.
WINFREY: John Wayne Gacy confessed to police
and later recanted,
maintaining that he was innocent until his execution.
But he told you he did it?
KAREN: Yes.
WINFREY: He told you he did it.
KAREN: I was in the jail with him visiting
him when he was here at Cook County.
And when I was in there, there was an article in
the paper with many faces of the boys.
And I asked him--I said, "How could you not know
these boys--they found these boys under
our hou"--well, it wasn't my house,
but my mother's and his.
I said, "How could you not know?"
And he didn't really answer,
and he said,
"I'm just really not guilty of all of them."
And I said, "All of them?
Does that mean any of them?"
And he--"Well, maybe one or two,"
and I said, "Then you're guilty of all,
because you can't kill one and not be guilty.
You're guilty of all."
WINFREY: Mm-hmm.
KAREN: And at that point, I was angry.
I was so angry for what he had done to my family,
our children--everything.
It was just very upsetting.
I guess at that point,
I could have just socked him
because of the way he was.
It was something I didn't know about him.
WINFREY: So when he was a little boy,
did he kill animals? Did he...
KAREN: No, no.
WINFREY: All the things that we
hear about the traits of serial killers?
KAREN: Nothing like that.
And we had a couple of dogs.
He was good to them, played with them, walked them.
Never--never any kind of signs of trying to hurt somebody.
WINFREY: Do you think that he
was trying to hide his homosexuality or bisexuality?
KAREN: Well, there was a time in Iowa that
my husband and I, with our oldest daughter,
visited, and we had gone out with them.
And when we were at this function, he said,
"Now, don't get upset if we're not--
if we don't go home with each other."
Sure enough, this other couple that was at our
table--the man went home with us--with her--and
he went off with the wife.
And it was the last time I ever stepped foot
in their house again, because I said,
"What in the world is going on here?"
And I asked him later about it,
and he said,
"Well, it's just-- it's nothing. It's nothing big."
You know. I never knew anything
about him with a bisexual, or sexual nature being gay.
WINFREY: With other men?
KAREN: Yeah. I never knew.
WINFREY: Well, what did you think,
and what did the family think,
when he was first accused, and went to jail--
was sentenced to 10 years, only served
18 months--for sodomy of a 15-year-old boy?
KAREN: Well, he said it was consensual.
You know, I guess back then, I never even
thought too much about it, except later,
my mom told me that as a child, he had been molested.
And you know, I don't want to say that
that excuses anything he did,
but I never knew that part about it.
And I don't know if she was trying to make
an excuse as to why this went--happened, or whatever...
WINFREY: Lots of people--if everybody who was molested
ended up killing people and putting them in
their crawlspace, we wouldn't have a world.
KAREN: You're right, you're right.
WINFREY: Yeah. Karen was with John the hours
before his execution.
We'll talk about that when we come back.
KAREN: Leaving the prison and looking back knowing
I'd never see him again was really, really hard.
The whole situation was a nightmare.
You could hear a lot of the chanting of people that
had already gathered at the prison.
KAREN: And I happened to see one of the interviews
taking place, and I saw it on the news that night,
and it was one of the prosecutors saying that it was
the greatest day in the world,
and it was really one of the worst days in the world for me.
After John's execution, there was no one that ever
called me to say,
"I'm sorry for your loss."
WINFREY: Did you spend the last day before
he was executed with John Wayne Gacy?
KAREN: I did. And...
WINFREY: What is that like? Or what was that like?
KAREN: You know, it was like he was at peace about it.
I had said to him, you know, I said,
"You'll never walk out of prison, never."
And he said, "If I have to live in prison for the rest of my life,
I'd rather be dead."
WINFREY: So when was this picture taken?
KAREN: This was hours before he was transferred.
WINFREY: To be executed?
KAREN: Yes. And a lot of people would probably think,
looking at that photo,
that, you know, "How could you be hugging him,"
or whatever, but he was my brother.
You know, I didn't ever know the evil part of him.
WINFREY: Do you think differently about him now?
KAREN: I don't like that part of him.
I hate that part of him.
And I had always said to my husband
and my family that if any appeal ever worked,
I'd see to it that he never walked the
face of the earth again.
WINFREY: Yeah. Did you ever talk to any of
the victims' families?
KAREN: No. The attorneys wouldn't allow us to.
They said that it was like admitting that he is guilty.
WINFREY: Is that one of the things you regret?
KAREN: Yes, I do. I do.
WINFREY: Yeah. I understand you just told your boss
last week who your brother was.
KAREN: I did. See, the name Gacy has been buried.
My sister has passed away a few years ago.
Her husband wouldn't even use her maiden name
on her death certificate.
I've never given my maiden name out to people,
my neighbors are now, if they watch
"Oprah," are going to find out who I really am.
WINFREY: Mm-hmm.
KAREN: After 31 years of living in a closet,
not being able to talk about John or anybody
--there was a couple
of times--I haven't even told anybody I had a
brother, because I didn't want that part of my life known.
I wanted my children to have a normal life,
my grandchildren to have a normal life.
WINFREY: Mm-hmm.
KAREN: And you can't have that.
WINFREY: What's the last thing your brother
said to you or you said to him?
KAREN: I told him I loved him, and I told him
that I forgave him for the stuff
that he--not the crime--I could never forgive
the crime--but for what we were put through.
WINFREY: Wow.