- [Gary] Hey, man. How are you?
- Good, how you doin'? - [Gary] Good.
Wow, if Neilann's you're spirit animal--
- [Jacob] You like that? She's a beast though.
- She's a beast. She is a beast.
How you doin'? - Good.
- [Gary] How's work? - Great.
- [Gary] Good. Tell me.
- People I'm working with are the best.
Very, very happy with who I ended up with.
- [Gary] Yeah, you ended up with an A team.
- Yeah. - [Gary] That's the truth.
- Everyone I work with is unbelievable.
- [Gary] Yeah.
- And first job out of college is sweet.
- [Gary] Yeah.
- I feel like I got lucky. - [Gary] It worked out.
- Yeah.
- [Gary] And so, what are you working on right now?
- We just finished up some always on content.
- [Gary] Yep.
- But we're transitioning so we're now doing more campaign
work so I'm doing less--
- [Gary] On what brands? - On (censored).
I'm also on (censored). - [Gary] Yep.
- Those I just do community management.
- [Gary] Yep.
- But I'm, that's the best about them is since they're so solid
they let me do other things. - [Gary] Yep.
- Across the board, all of them, they're outperforming higher so
they let the person under them--
- [Gary] 100%.
- That's the best part about it and that's why I think it's good
for me 'cause I'm working on a ton of shit.
- [Gary] It's like how we know.
It's a sports analogy.
You get drafted by a great team,--
- [Jacob] Yeah, it's a fit. - and, yeah, it's a fit.
- [Jacob] I got lucky. - It's good.
It's good to get lucky sometimes.
What about and what about the macro culture of the company?
Outside of your day-to-day?
- That's what I mean.
I don't really have to compare to--
- [Gary] Yeah. - because my first job.
- [Gary] That's a good point.
- Talking to other people,-- - [Gary] Yeah.
- just humans, I've met, I've talked to humans before and
I have a good experience with humans.
- [Gary] No, (laughs) yeah.
- I mean, yeah, it's great.
And I would say coming into this it has exceeded my expectations.
But again, I have little to compare to.
- [Gary] Yeah. - But I mean, yeah.
I would hang out with most of these people outside the office.
- [Gary] Yeah, and the basketball stuff has been great.
- It's huge. - [Gary] Yeah.
- It's been great. It's great.
Even outside of work, just to run.
- [Gary] Yeah. - It's awesome.
I think the fact that it's at six in the morning--
- [Gary] Eliminates, yeah. - Yeah. It really does though.
- [Gary] People that want to be there.
- Yeah. - [Gary] For sure.
What can I answer for you?
- [Jacob] Question, building communities.
Advice between...
- [Gary] What is that, DRock?
- [DRock] I have no idea.
- [Gary] Go ahead, I'm listening.
- [Jacob] Content, outside of blogs,
SEO versus just social.
- For the purpose of?
- [Jacob] A start up that is just trying to gain a following.
- Cool.
So is this like for your side hustle?
Your friends or your guys'? - [Jacob] Yeah.
- You can be specific with me.
- [Jacob] Yeah.
I'm working with guys like Brandon,
guy you know as John Henry. - Yep. What is it?
- [Jacob] His personal brand.
- Who's? Brandon's? - [Jacob] Yeah.
- The kid we played with today?
- [Jacob] Yeah, yeah, yeah. - What's he do?
- [Jacob] He does menswear. (inaudible)
- [Gary] That's awesome.
- [Jacob] Yeah, he's good.
- You're gonna get more bang for your buck,
I mean, there's so much,
so what's good about search and
blogs is there's
far more guaranteed singles and doubles.
What's great about social is there's so many more potential
for home runs and grand slams and so it just depends on how
you want to play it.
It comes down to economics, a lot of times.
- [Jacob] Right. I think that's a good thing.
- And menswear is all going to over-index visually so that's
where Facebook and Instagram
and things of that nature are gonna--
- [Jacob] For sure. - Go ahead.
- [Jacob] If you want to build a deeper community,
wouldn't you agree that you'd have to give real content?
So, is that why SEO and Google
people are searching for their problems.
- [Gary] Yeah, I mean look. Look, search is real.
- You think you're getting real to who you want to talk to.
- [Gary] Real people meaning?
- The specific people that have, are searching for their problem
and provide their solution.
- [Gary] Yeah, I mean, search is the great intent marketing
vehicle of our time.
I have a weird rash. - [Jacob] Right.
- How to solve this bike problem.
- [Jacob] Right.
- So what search is incredible for is I have a specific thing
I want to scratch right now.
And I'm going to go to this site,
Google, and I'm going to find something.
What's great about social is you're interested in basketball
and it comes to you. - [Jacob] Okay.
- It's passive versus going on the offense.
What's great about social is it's got built-in word of mouth.
So you are an individual trying to solve your fashion problem in
a menswear thing, you're never gonna tell anyone about
what you're doing.
There's no inherent word of mouth brand building.
Whereas in social if you
discover that I'm interested in that, I see it,
the amplification percentages are very high.
Even built-in.
Instagram, you double tap something your friends look at
what your liking. - [Jacob] Right.
- It's just just a very, very, very,
very different insular versus outward thing.
For me that's why social has been so big for small brands.
They don't have anything yet.
And so they rely so much on word of mouth.
- [Jacob] What about getting a community?
For example, your community is strong.
Down to comment.
Down to do whatever. - Yes.
- [Jacob] Essentially anything you say.
- Yes.
- [Jacob] But I think that's because you give deeper content.
- Yeah, I think the variable of the subject matter,
what the person is bringing to the table.
If this is a menswear product that has 89% of its overall
macro energy, in Brandon's heart and brain--
- [Jacob] Right.
- is to sell this product, if that's 89%,
he's gonna have an 11% community.
The reason I have such a big community is I'm the reverse.
That's what people don't understand.
It's playing a marathon versus a sprint.
When you don't have the luxury like Brandon probably doesn't of
waiting two years to monetize,--
- [Jacob] Right.
- whatever he's doing, you go in for the sale and what happens
when you go in for the sale is
the people on the other side of it feel it.
It's a value exchange game.
- [Jacob] Long-term, short-term. - That's exactly right.
And I sit here on a pedestal because I've been able to put in
the work for 20 years and I have the leverage now to do that.
- [Jacob] Right.
- But day one it is hard.
Day one 22-year-old Gary trying to sell wine,
I don't know if I would've
had a 97% percent you, 3% me strategy.
As a matter fact, I know I didn't.
It was more 50-50 but
I even then knew wasn't 98, 2 and that's what most people do.
Why are you producing content?
'Cause you really want to sell your shit.
If you want to sell your shit in the short term,
your content and your energy to ploys that behavior.
If you think about I'm going to try to stay alive for two years
and the content I'm going to put out is just going to build
relationship and then I'll be able to monetize that some way
in two years, your content looks very different.
All of a sudden you're in
there answering people's fashion questions.
You're just thinking about it differently.
See where I'm going? - [Jacob] Yeah, definitely.
My big question,
22-year-old advice
New York indie digital game,
what about that?
- It comes down to your ambition.
I think the answer is far more like
what you want to happen in life?
And then how you want to get there?
So you know, the serendipity of being that this,
if you're in digital games, you stepped into shit because you
stepped into the best place at a time when a lot of people didn't
realize that that was the case.
Which means you have just disproportionate value.
You know, everybody's gonna want to work you now.
- [Jacob] Right.
- But they're gonna come in at a different company.
You have a lot of value and you came in as employee number
five-who knows what number you came in, right?
Well, guess what? People that came in number 30
and 40 have even more value, right?
So I think it comes down to do you want to have your own
agency, do you want to have, it's amazing.
And I'll give you a really good piece of advice.
It's been interesting to watch 22-year-olds that have asked me
that question who tell me want to have their own shop and
I would say I'll help you.
You'll learn so much here.
I'll be an external mentor.
We'll get to know each other.
You work here for 5 to 7 years and give me a lot of blood and
sweat and tears I'll even help you even more.
Financially, relationships.
It's been interesting to see how many of those 22-year-olds are
now 26, and now say to me, "I don't want my own shop.
"I fell in love.
"I like my work-life balance here.
"I believe in you.
"I like the idea of making
"$200,000 a year and having that life."
Other people went the other way.
"Like I don't know, I want to work at Vayner my whole life and
"make $100,000," and now they're like,
"Wait a minute, maybe I can have my own."
So I think the one thing to understand is 22-year-old Jacob
and 27-year-old Jacob and
33-year-old Jacob are very different dudes.
I wouldn't cripple yourself with,
don't let your ambition create and whatever ambition,
whether the most extreme.
I want to buy the Jets or whatever it may be,
don't let it be in permanent marker.
- [Jacob] That's pretty good advice.
- And I think the other thing is relationships matter.
- [Jacob] Yeah. - That's life.
And so the thing we started this meeting with,
I would highly recommend spending 30 minutes in the
cafeteria every day and working and saying hello.
- [Jacob] Sure.
- It's just insane that Chris, right there,
is the guy that might create an opportunity for you and how many
people will not even say hello. - [Jacob] Yeah.
- So I'd be so more social professional.
- [Jacob] That makes sense. - Yeah.
There's so much value here.
The greatest thing I've created here is that it's easy to say
hello to somebody here. - [Jacob] For sure.
- That's what your friends are telling you.
That they work in a place where
you can't fucking say hello to anybody.
- [Jacob] Yes. - That's not allowed.
That's the horse shit out there. - [Jacob] Yes.
- That's the best thing here.
So then do it. - [Jacob] I like that.
- It's really, real. - [Jacob] Yeah.
- And it creates different opportunities.
Even if you life goal was to work here for 37 years,
even internally it'll create opportunities.
- [Jacob] Sure.
Yeah.
- Go ahead. - [Jacob] Yeah.
He got a new job but he's looking for other stuff.
Digital sports, whatever,
any advice for the direction he should go?
- Again, whether it's 22-year-old (censored) it comes
down to does he want to work for 13 more years,
eight, three.
Where is he financially?
It's so hard, that's why you have to know those things
but I would give...
Listen, I've come to really like you if you (censored) come and
jame for me for 15 minutes, 20 minutes,
I'd be willing to do that.
I have a lot of relationships. You know?
I'd be more happy to help him
but I need to know what the fuck he cares about.
- [Jacob] For sure, for sure.
- If he's like dude, I just want to go three more and I'm gone.
- [Jacob] No, no, no, he's interested.
- Cool. - [Jacob] He's working for--
- Good, if he's in the game, then I think it comes down to a
financial thing of what can he afford.
Does he want to be executive, so kid we're recruiting right now,
his dad took a huge pay cuts as an operations SVP to be the first
SVP operations at...
He was right.
He left half his salary on the table 'cause he could afford to.
And that stock turned into the greatest nest egg of all time.
Became rich!
Let alone successful.
So I think (censored) can go through that too.
Out of (censored) he's needs to decide if he's gonna go for
eight to 15 more, can he afford to make $80,000 at Bleacher
Report versus 235 at NBC Sports. - [Jacob] Right.
- Got it? - [Jacob] Yes.
- That's how has to think about it.
That's a black-and-white decision.
And then if you can afford it, then I would push him very
heavily to more fun, more autonomy,
more upside, better energy-- - [Jacob] For sure.
- and if he can't, then you got a look at the alternative and
try to find the best version
of that in that corporate environment.
- [Jacob] That's awesome.
- Yep. Cool.
- [Jacob] 'Preciate it.
- Good seeing you, man. Talk to you soon.
- [Jacob] Yeah. Have a good one. - You too.