Air traffic control versus pilots.
Vistajet 868, hard right turn, hard right turn.
I need you eastbound for SeaTac airport eastbound turn.
Coming up!
Hey, 74 crew! Welcome back!
If you don't know me, my name's Kelsey.
I'm a 747 pilot.
My channel 74 gear is all about aviation.
I really appreciate all of you in the 74 crew.
Thank you so much for those of you
who are sending me these clips with Air traffic control and pilots.
These would be really hard to find. There's so many things out there on the internet.
So thank you very much for sending those to me.
If you have one that you want to see on this series,
the easiest place to send to me, Instagram or the free forum 74gear.com
In this one, we have pilots trying to negotiate a deal with Air traffic control.
We have some pilots that are crossing a runway
where another pilot is trying to take off.
And of course, we've got a funny one at the end.
Let's get into!
Tower Vistajet 868, holding short B10 and we are fully ready for runway 32L departure.
Vistajet 868, just verify your squawking VFR and understand you are right traffic pattern?
Right traffic pattern and affirm squawking VFR 1200 Vistajet 868.
Vistajet 868, runway 32 lineup and wait.
Runway 32L, lineup and wait and could you just confirm
that you'd like us to maintain 1500' on the downwind Vistajet 868.
Vistajet 868, affirmative the pattern altitude will be 1500'
Vistajet 868, runway 32L clear for takeoff, make your right turn for the pattern at 1500'.
There's two different ways that the planes are flying around the sky.
One is VFR: Visual flight rules.
And what that means is
you're not having to stay on a set specific road in the sky, if you will.
So when you're flying VFR,
you can fly whatever direction you want, as long as it's right altitude.
And you know, you keep in mind the different airspaces
that you're prohibited from flying into,
but generally speaking, there's a lot less rules.
The other way is IFR.
And IFR is what you as a passenger,
when you're flying on a commercial airliner,
we're flying IFR.
So those are the two different ways.
So it's important to understand VFR and IFR,
specifically for this video, and you're gonna understand why just a minute here.
But that VFR, squawking VFR, means you're squawking 1200,
1200 in your transponder.
Your transponder is what communicates to Air traffic control,
and it lets them know who you are, where you are.
So if they see a plane that's squawking 1200,
they know they don't have to be on any specific route or road in the sky.
So it's important to understand that.
Listen here where we mentioned squawking 1200.
Vistajet 868, just verify your squawking VFR
and understand you are right traffic pattern?
Right traffic pattern and affirm squawking VFR 1200, Vistajet 868.
The setup in the beginning of this video here is gonna make a lot of sense
of why I'm explaining in such detail
of how this thing got so messed up in the beginning.
There's two other phrases that the pilot uses here, and that's a downwind and base.
Downwind, the easiest way I can explain it to you is if you've ever gone to an airport
and watch planes take off and landing,
they're kind of making a racetrack pattern, right?
So they take off and then they fly along parallel with the runway they're landing at,
but the opposite direction.
So when you're flying opposite direction of the runway, you're gonna land at.
You're flying exactly 180 degrees from the way you're gonna land.
That's called a downwind.
Then, you make a 90 degree turn, that's your base leg.
And then you have one more final turn, which is your final.
So that base leg is when you have one more turn to come in to land.
So downwind is 180 degrees, 90 degree turn,
that's your base leg.
Then one more turn and you're ready to land.
So it's just important to understand those terms,
because it's gonna make sense why this was a problem.
Listen again to what he says here.
Runway 32L, lineup and wait and could you just confirm
that you'd like us to maintain 1,500 feet on the downwind, Vistajet 868.
So as you're going 180 degrees, you're on a downwind.
You make a 90 degree turn, that's your base leg.
And then one more 90 degree turn and you're landing on the runway.
And that's why I always laugh at some of these other are videos when they say:
"Oh, he is making a 45 degree turn into the runway"
Because when you go through flight school, you make 90 degree turns.
So making a 45 degree turn is not a big deal.
Now, you understand more why that's comical to me.
Now that I've explained all the boring stuff here,
you understand as far as what the pilot is saying
and what Air traffic control is understanding is
"I'm going to take off
and fly at 1500 feet around the airport doing a traffic pattern".
Usually indicating that you're going to just be flying back in and landing.
That's what he's saying.
And that's what Air traffic control is hearing
because that's what he is saying.
And that is where the confusion starts.
Listen to this.
Vistajet 868, start the right turn now and keep your downwind inside the lake at 1500'.
We're turning in the right turn now 1500 and inside the lake, Vistajet 868.
Vistajet 868, make it a hard turn, remain west of the lake.
We are at max bank, Vistajet 868.
Vistajet 868, thank you. You just maintain that present attitude and fly the downwind.
I'll call your base turn.
Continue on down when at 1500', Vistajet 868.
Vistajet 868 in 1 mile turn right base.
In 1 mile right base, Vistajet 868.
Vistajet 868 looks like you're just over shooting final now
traffic from SeaTac is about 2 miles to your west
expect landing clearance on a 2 mile final runway 32L.
We're departing to the north, Vistajet 868.
So you heard the Air traffic controller got him lined up.
He got the base leg and got him lined up to get ready to land.
And then, you heard the pilot say: "We're departing".
I think they said we're departing to the North. Listen.
We're departing to the north, Vistajet 868.
So essentially what he is telling Air traffic control at this point is
"I'm not planning the land, I'm to keep going to the north"
"Now that I've turned all the way around,
I'm planning to fly over the runway and just keep on flying that way".
Now, the controller obviously did not know that
because he's getting him lined up to get ready to land
and that's where things get really crazy.
Listen to this.
Vistajet 868, hard right turn, hard right turn.
I need you eastbound for SeaTac airport, eastbound turn.
We're max bank now, Vistajet 868.
Traffic alert Vistajet 868, traffic at you 1 o'clock
and 2 miles climbing out of 1800 is a Boeing 757.
I need you on the north heading now.
We're heading north now, Vistajet 868.
Vistajet 868, say intentions again.
Yeah, we're on a departure to the north.
Our destination is Athens LGAV, Vistajet 868.
Vistajet 868, we are not going to give you your IFR clearance airborne.
Do you want a full stop landing?
Negative. Aren't you able to negotiate? We're too heavy to land.
We require to remain airborne for the next 5 hours
before we can reach our max landing weight, Vistajet 868.
I read online that the pilot that's talking here
actually had coordinated with somebody on the ground
that they were gonna do this pattern and then take off to the north.
However, the person who sent me this audio,
this was the beginning of the audio where he is talking
to Air traffic control in tower.
Obviously, the tower person did not know about this
and I couldn't find that audio anywhere.
So if that's true, okay.
But you heard the controller that this person's talking to in the tower
has no idea about that going on.
And I'm about to talk about that in a minute,
but sometimes what will happen is when you're at an airport
that's near a very, very large airport,
the wait time to get off the ground can be a long time.
You might be in, let's say Santa Monica, which is near LAX.
You might have to wait 45 minutes to get this IFR clearance to get out
because they have so much traffic coming through LAX.
So the wait time is really long for you to get out of there.
So sometimes what will happen is that pilots will take off via IFR
where there's no rules.
They'll get up in the air and get clearance.
But usually, it's not somewhere so far away like Athens.
There's a lot of different points that you have to write down
along that fixed to Athens.
It's typically not what you'd wanna do.
All of this could have been avoided here.
Had the pilot communicated with Air traffic control, the guy tower that's in this audio
and had they said:
"Yes, we're gonna do a pattern but then we're planning to depart to the north".
Just to clarify and make sure that he understands
what's going on and what their plan is.
Then this all would've been avoided. He could have coordinated all that stuff
before these guys got up in the air.
But what he did is he just assumed that that guy thought:
"Yeah, okay. I know that I already coordinated with the guy on the ground".
If that did happen,
"I already coordinated with the guy on the ground
so this is all totally fine. I'm just gonna take off and do pattern works.
And he already knows what I wanna do".
It's better to clarify with somebody,
if you don't have certainty that they understand what's going on, it'd be better to clarify.
Now, if I'm the controller based off of everything that this pilot is saying to me,
I'm not understanding at all that you're planning to depart anywhere.
I'm just hearing that you wanna do a pattern.
So I wouldn't think anything different
just like this controller, obviously didn't know or expect anything different
until the pilot said:
"I wanna depart to the North and go to Athens, which is a long ways away".
Delta 300, hold short of runway 22R at J. What is the gate number?
22.
Thank you.
Delta 253, wind is 180 at 5. Runway 22R clear for takeoff.
Clear for takeoff, 22R Delta 253.
When I was a new pilot, I'd be talking to some old vet pilots.
They would always say to me:
"Yeah, I keep a mental map of everything that's going on with the planes around me.
And I know who's taking off and landing
and what planes are where".
and I thought, "Man, how is that possible?"
There's so much things that are happening.
But as you get more experience, everything starts to slow down for you.
Think of it, kind of like when you first start driving.
When you first start driving a car,
it seems like, "Oh, we're going 60 miles an hour or a hundred kilometers an hour".
Things are happening so fast right now.
But the reality is after you have a couple years of driving,
you start seeing and paying more attention and noticing things and,
and being more aware and things slow down for you.
The same thing applies when you're in the sky.
So what will happen is when you're new, you have tunnel vision.
You don't really hear or see everything that what's going on,
but after time, you get experienced and you get more and more comfortable
and you hear and have a better mental image
or a better situational awareness of what's going on around you.
But at these pilots level of experience at Delta at this stage in their career,
they should have pretty good situational awareness
and listen to what's happening around them.
And if you listen again to what happens,
the air traffic controller tells some pilots to hold short of 22 right.
Listen again to this audio.
Delta 300, hold short of runway 22R at J. What is the gate number?
So those pilots got told to hold short of 22 right.
She asked what their gate was.
And then later in the audio, she says this:
Delta 253 wind is 180 at 5. Runway 22R clear for takeoff.
Now, if you were paying attention and listening to what was going on around you
and you heard another plane just got cleared for take off 22 right,
you would drop the hammer or accelerate really quickly or quickly transmit,
"No, we're on the active runway" or whatever
but they seem oblivious to what's going on here.
And they're just crossing the runway,
not listening to what's going on around,
which is not something you should ever do.
But at these pilots experience, it surprises me.
But the controller also has some responsibility here.
When they tell you to hold short, you're supposed to read bank to hold short.
So she should have said, "Hold short of 22 right"
"What's your gate?"
And they should have said:
"We're parking at gate 22. We'll hold short of runway 22 right".
And had they not said that, she should have insisted that they say:
"Hold short of 22 right". But she didn't.
So she has some responsibility in this situation too.
If you listen again,
they just read back their gate without the hold short instructions.
Listen.
Delta 300, hold short of runway 22R at J. What is the gate number?
22.
Thank you.
Sometimes, there is a complacency at larger airports
with Air traffic control on pilots,
because it's a certain level of professionalism
and they expect that you would not make an error like this
because there's two people up there at least
that are listening to everything that's going on.
And so usually what will happen for example,
is you get cleared across a given runway.
One pilot, who's taxing the aircraft, will say:
"We're cleared to cross".
And the other pilot that's in there will say: "Yes, we're cleared to cross".
And that is a affirmation that both of you agree
that you are cleared to cross that runway.
That's typically what happens in most airlines.
So when they cross this runway, I don't know what the rules are for Delta at this time,
if they had anything like that.
But they crossed the runway after they get told to hold short of 22 right.
They just crossed.
Now, when I did some of those flying videos at a smaller airport, for example,
when I was at with Stella,
the instructions were to go up and hold short of whatever runway it was.
And I read it back a little bit shorthand.
I said: "Okay, we'll taxi this way to the runway".
And the controller was like:
"You're taxing this way to this runway", like very stern. And I thought:
"Man, they're really strict".
And then I remembered, I'm at a regular student airport,
so pilots are learning how to fly there.
So they need things to be very clear and precise.
And they expect you to be more exact,
which is probably a better habit that I should have,
but they expect you to be more precise on what you're saying,
the way you're getting to a specific runway.
Because student pilots get a little bit lost easier
than a person who's an airline pilot.
So sometimes there is a complacency
because these types of things almost never happen
with controllers and professional pilots.
But at a smaller airport where student pilots are kind of spun around as
what direction and what runway and crossing and things like that.
They make those mistakes.
You typically would hear something like what happened here from a student pilot
not from a professional pilot at a place like Delta.
Delta, Delta 300.
Delta 253 is aborting takeoff.
Delta 300, you were instructed to hold short of runway 22R.
You maybe said that, but I also repeated back clear to cross
and I'm sorry about that we missed that.
You absolutely did not Delta 300, what is the gate number?
22. You asked is that and I also you said cleared to cross
and I repeated that I thought that's what you said.
I said hold short of 22R and I asked you for your gate number but
Well, that's my fault. I misheard what you said and repeated back the wrong thing.
Delta 300. What would you like us to do?
Delta 300, continue A to the ramp for now, monitor ground 121.9
Alpha to the ramp, 121.9 Roger.
Delta 300 you still up?
Yes.
Delta 300, possible pilot deviation.
We need you to call the tower here. Advise ready to copy your phone number.
Now I've had some people say,
"Kelsey, you're telling people to be scared or nervous
when they get told to call the tower".
You heard her say possible pilot deviation, call the tower, blah, blah, blah.
And that's because you're typically told to call the tower,
when you really mess something up like this.
You don't ever typically want to get told to call the tower.
It doesn't mean that it's gonna be bad, but for the most part,
there was something that didn't happen the way it was supposed to happen.
A lot of times you'll hear pilots when they get up in the flight deck
and they'll say something like,
"I don't wanna have to fill out any paperwork.
I just wanna finish this trip and go home."
And that's true.
You're not trying to have to call Air traffic control.
Talk to the Chief pilot, go to management, do the carpet dance.
You're not trying to do any of that stuff.
Pilots are lazy. I've mentioned that a lot of times.
We want to go there. We wanna fly our planes.
We wanna park our planes and we want to go to our overnights and go have fun.
So this is an example here of what happens is getting told to call tower
is not what you want. Doesn't mean it's bad,
but it's typically not something "Hey, you did such a great job".
"Give us a call. We wanna talk to you about it."
No.
So I will give credit to the Delta pilot here because once he realized
that he had made the mistake,
he owned up and took responsibility for it and saying,
"Hey, that was my fault. I misunderstood."
But then he said, he read back saying that he was cleared to cross
which he didn't and you heard that as well.
But he did take responsibility for his actions.
So I'll give him credit
because people make mistakes.
And obviously this was a mistake
that's gonna be a huge learning experience for both these pilots.
And they will probably never ever make this type of mistake again.
But like I said, this is so, so rare.
And for those of you that are nervous flyers and thinking,
"Oh my gosh".
This is so rare. And only the rare stuff ends up on Viral debrief
or Air traffic control versus pilots.
So don't freak out. This is not very common at all.
Now,
as we always do, we got a funny one.
Listen up.
Southwest 1774 12,000 FL190.
Southwest 1774, Boston Center. Roger climb maintain FL 400.
FL 400, Southwest 1774.
Boston tower 1774. We had that breakfast buffet.
We can only make 38. Is that Ok for you?
Center 1774, I guess that's fine. Maintain FL 380.
380, thanks 1774.
I hope it was good.
It was.
See, I'm not the only one who loves a free breakfast.
I'm telling you, pilots are cheap.
If there's free breakfast, we're getting up and we're gonna go get our free breakfast.
And in some hotels, I mean, it's an amazing breakfast.
The place I'm at right now,
you'll go down there and guys will be down there for two hours eating there.
It's just, it's a really good breakfast.
And if it's free, why not eat as much as you can.
So for those of you who don't know when they're talking about these flight levels,
the flight levels in the U.S., which is where they are.
The flight levels are above 18,000 feet.
We switch over from saying 17,000 feet to going flight level 190.
That's for 19,000 feet.
And that's for every altitude from the 18,000 up in the U.S.
Every country's different.
Some people transition at a lower altitude.
So this transition let's say would be at 34,000 feet
or 34,500 feet, for example,
you would say flight level 345.
So that would be how you would say flight levels.
And that's why he's saying
flight level 340, whatever flight level they're using.
It's basically just the first three numbers of that altitude
is what you say for your flight level.
Now, speaking of free breakfast,
if you wanna see some of the memes where I talk about pilots loving free breakfast,
check out this one here.
And if you wanna see some more pilots fighting with Air traffic control,
check out this video up here.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Until then,
keep the blue side up.