MY NEXT GUEST IS A LED LEADER IN THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT.
PLEASE WELCOME DEA-- DERAY MCKESSON. PLAWTION PLAWS--
(APPLAUSE) 7.
>> GOODS TO BE HERE.
>> Stephen: AS I SAID BEFORE, YOU ARE ONE OF THE LEADERS OF
THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT.
THOUGH YOU HAVE MOVED ON TO FOCUS ON SOMETHING CALLED
CAMPAIGN ZERO RIGHT NOW.
>> YES, A CONFERENCE PLATFORM TO END POLICE VIOLENCE.
THE MOVEMENT IS BIGGER THAN ANY ONE ORGANIZATION.
THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE PUSHING TO END POLICE VIOLENCE AND THIS
IS ONE OF THE CENTRAL PLATFORMS.
>> Stephen: YOU HELPED ORGANIZE THE PROTEST IN FERGUSON
AND BALTIMORE.
WERE YOU NAMED FOR TUNE MAGAZINE'S 2015 GREATEST WORLD
LEADERS LIST AND ONE OF TEN PEOPLE BEYONCE FOLLOWS ON
TWITTER.
THAT'S A LOT OF PRESSURE.
>> BEYONCE IS GREAT AND MORE WOKE THAN PEOPLE GIVE HER CREDIT
FOR.
>> Stephen: MORE WHAT?
>> WOKE.
>> Stephen: WHAT DOES WOKE MEAN, HONEST TO GOD, EVIDENTLY
I'M NOT WOKE.
>> YOU WORE THE BRACELET ONE DAY, YOU WERE WOKE THAT DAY.
>> Stephen: SOMEBODY IN MY OFFICE ASKED ME IF I WOULD WEAR
A BLACK LIVES MATTER BRACELET.
SO I PUT IT ON.
AND WOULD YOU HAVE THINK I SLAPPED A BABY.
PEOPLE GOT VERY MAD ABOUT IT.
WHY DO YOU THINK PEOPLE GET SO MAD ABOUT THE IDEA OF BLACK
LIVES MATTER?
>> CUZ IT'S AN IDEA AS MUCH AS A MOVEMENT.
>> YEAH, I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE UNCOMFORTABLE TALKING ABOUT THE
RACIST HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO UNDO
THE IMPACT OF RACISM.
AND PEOPLE ARE JUST LIKE TO ACT LIKE WE DON'T HAVE A LEGACY OF
RACISM HERE.
SO I THINK PEOPLE GET REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH IT.
BUT WE KNOW THAT WE CAN'T CHANGE IT UNLESS WE ADDRESS IT, RIGHT.
>> Stephen: WELL, SOME PEOPLE BOTH REPUBLICANS AND
DEMOCRATS-- (APPLAUSE)
SOME REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES AND MARTIN O'MALLEY AT FIRST ALSO
SAID ALL LIVES MATTER, IN RESPONSE.
>> YEAH.
>> Stephen: WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT REACTION.
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S SUCH A DISTRACTION.
WE KNOW IF ALL LIVES MATTER WERE TRUE WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE BE
OUT IN THE STREET.
THE POLICE HAVE KILLED 26 PEOPLE JUST IN 2016.
SO WE HAVE SO MUCH WORK TO DO.
AND THAT IS JUST THE WAY TO AVOID TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUE OF
POLICE BRUTALITY BY GETTING PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT THIS NOTION
OF ALL LIVES MATTER.
IT'S JUST NOT TRUE.
>> Stephen: WHEN YOU SAY POLICE BRUTALITY, SOME PEOPLE'S
REACTION WOULD BE THIS ISN'T ALL POLICEMAN.
YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT BAD APPLES, OR ARE YOU SAYING THAT
THERE IS A SYSTEMIC HISTORY OF VIOLENCE AGAINST THE
AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY OR POOR COMMUNITIES IN GENERAL,
THAT DOESN'T ON VEE EIGHT THE FACT THAT IT IS ONLY A VIEW
PEOPLE DOING THIS.
>> IT'S NOT JUST BAD APPLES TRK IS LIKE A BAD BATCH, RIGHT.
WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS THAT ACROSS THE COUNTRY THESE ISSUES AROUND
POLICE VIOLENCE IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR ARE POPPING UP.
>> Stephen: SOMETIMES IT'S AFRICAN-AMERICAN OFFICERS
INVOLVED WITH THESE.
DOES THAT CHANGE YOUR FEELING AT ALL.
>> NO, BECAUSE THERE IS THE BLUE COAT OF SILENCE.
WHEN THEY BECOME POLICE OFFICER THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT THE
CULTURE ITSELF THAT IS DANGEROUS IN COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE
COUNTRY.
WE SEE IT TAMARA RICE-- TAMIR RICE, MIKE BROWN, ACROSS THE
COUNTRY IT IS SO SIMILAR, IT IS NOT THESE ISOLATED EVENTS T IS A
SYSTEMIC PROBLEM.
>> Stephen: WILL YOU ADMIT THAT BEING A POLICE MAN IS A
DANGEROUS OCCUPATION, THAT IF THERE IS A TRAGEDY PERPETRATED
BY POLICE, IT IS IN ANYWAY OBVIATED BY THE FACT THEY PUT
THEIR LIVERS ON THE LINE FOR THE REST OF ARE WITH US THRNS ARE
MANY DANGEROUS JOBS IN THE COUNTRY.
POLICE HAVE THE POWER TO KILL PEOPLE.
THAT MEANS THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT RESPONSIBILITY AND ACCOUNT
ABILITY THAT IS NOT PRESENT.
THEY KILL PEOPLE AND THEY AREN'T ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT.
WE HAVEN'T SEEN MANY INDICTMENTS OR CONVICTIONS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY AND THAT IS NOT OKAY.
>> Stephen: THIS IS A DAY THAT WE CELEBRATE MARTIN LUTHER KING,
THE GREATEST HERO-OF-THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, MY LIFETIME.
HOW DO YOU THINK THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AS IT EXISTS
TODAY IS DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS IN HIS TIME?
BECAUSE IT'S OFTEN LOOKED AT AS A GOLDEN AGE IT WAS TAKEN FROM
ITS WORLD STILL AS A YOUNG MAN AND IS NOW SORT OF A PERSON IN
AMBER, LIKE IT'S UNCHANGEABLE FIGURE.
AND THE TACTICS OF THE 1960s, WHAT KING DID IS UNQUESTIONABLE
FOR THAT REASON.
DOES THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT HAVE TO CHANGE NOW?
>> I THINK TODAY'S INTERESTING BECAUSE PEOPLE MISREMEMBER KING
TODAY.
THEY REMEMBER THE SAFE KING, NOT THE RADICAL REVOLUTIONARY KING.
>> Stephen: WHAT IS THE RADICAL REVOLUTIONARY KING.
>> HE TALKED ABOUT REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH AND
ECONOMIC JUSTICE.
HE WAS MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE THAN THE DREAM THAT PEOPLE REMEMBER.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS DIFFERENT ABOUT THE
CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT NOW IS REALLY ABOUT TECHNOLOGY, RIGHT.
THE ISSUES THAT ARE THE SAME.
AND WE DIDN'T INVENT RESISTANCE.
WE DIDN'T DISCOVER INJUSTICE.
THE TECHNOLOGY HAS ALLOWED US TO AMPLIFY THESE MESSAGES IN WAYS
WE COULDN'T BEFORE AND ACCELERATEDDED PACE OF
ORGANIZING IN WAYS THAT ARE REALLY POWERFUL.
>> Stephen: WHAT IS CAMPAIGN ZERO.
>> SO CAMPAIGN ZERO IS A PLATFORM TOAND POLICE VIOLENCE.
WE COVER THINGS LIKE POLICE UNION CONTRACTS, USE OF FORCE,
BOBBY CAMERAS.
AND IT IS WE USED WITH HILLARY, BERNIE, LORETTA LYNCH.
>> Stephen: WERE YOU AT THE DEBATE.
>> I WAS IN CHARLESTON.
>> Stephen: HOW DID YOU FEEL ST WENT?
DO YOU THINK THAT THE CANDIDATES UP THERE ADDRESSED ANY OF THE
ISSUES THAT YOU WERE HOPING FOR?
>> YEAH, I THINK THERE WAS PROBABLY THE BEST QUESTION ABOUT
RACE THAT WE HAVE HAD AT THE DEBATE SO FAR, WE HAVE AN
ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF THE ISSUES AT SYSTEMIC ISSUES.
NOW WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY PLAN TO DO.
WE HEARD HILLARY ACKNOWLEDGE WHITE PRIF LIGE WHICH SHE HAS
NEVER DONE BEFORE.
BERNIE CONTINUED TO TALK ABOUT SYSTEMIC INJUSTICE.
AND O'MALLEY, YOU KNOW, STILL GOT SOME WORK TO DO.
>> Stephen: NOW I MIGHT BE, YOU CAN TELL ME, I MIGHT BE THE
WHITEST PERSON YOU'VE EVER MET.
HENRY LOUIS GAITS THE HEAD OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES AT
HARVARD AFTER HE TOOK MY DNA.
HE HAD MY DNA SEQUENCED AND HE SAID ARE YOU WHITE, BABY, YOU
ARE THE WHITEST MAN I'VE EVER MET.
SO I MIGHT HAVE THE MOST PRIVILEGE OF ANY WHITE PERSON
YOU HAVE EVER MET.
HOW DO I IDENTIFY THAT IN MY OWN LIFE?
BECAUSE IF I HAVE A WHITE PRIVILEGE I WANT TO BE ABLE TO
IDENTIFY IT.
GIVE ME SOME HINTS AS TO MY WHITE PRIVILEGE.
>> YOU HAVE A SHOW, YOU HAVE A LOT OF MONEY.
>> Stephen: THAT'S TRUE.
>> A LOT OF ACCESS.
>> Stephen: YEAH.
>> THAT IS TRUE.
HAVE I A SHOW, I HAVE A LOT OF MONEY.
>> YOU DO.
>> Stephen: THE FACT THAT I'M SITTING HERE AND ARE YOU SITTING
THERE IS PART OF THAT WHITE PRIVILEGE.
>> IT'S ABOUT ROLE AND ABOUT ACCESS.
AND WHAT YOU CAN DO IS EXTEND THAT PRIVILEGE SO YOU CAN
DISMANTLE IT, RIGHT.
YOU CAN CREATE OPPORTUNITY FOR PEEVMENT YOU CAN AMPLIFY ISSUES
IN WAYS OTHER PEOPLE CAN'T.
AND YOU CAN USE YOUR RESOURCES TO CREATE SPACE FOR PEOPLE.
(APPLAUSE) (CHEERS AND APPLAUSE).
>> Stephen: SO DERAY, ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO ASK ME ABOUT
BEING WHITE.
>> YEAH, I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU PLAN TO DO NOW THAT YOU
UNDERSTAND YOUR WHITENESS A LITTLE BETTER TO DISMANT TELL.
>> Stephen: WHAT AM I GOING TO DO TO DISMANTLE WHITE PRIVILEGE.
>> NOW WHAT THAT YOU UNDERSTAND IT, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO-- .
>> Stephen: I DON'T KNOW IF I DO UNDERSTAND IT I CAN DISMANTLE
DRK DSH ACKNOWLEDGE IT.
>> LET'S DIALOGUE.
LET'S THINK ABOUT IT.
>> YOU HAVE A LOT OF MONEY, YOU HAVE A SHOW.
>> Stephen: YOU CAN'T HAVE MY MONEY.
(LAUGHTER) >> WHAT YOU CAN DO.
>> Stephen: AND YOU CAN'T HAVE MY SHOW.
>> WHY DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE UNCOMFORTABLE TALKING ABOUT
RACE, WHY ARE WHITE PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE TALKING ABOUT
RACE.
>> Stephen: I CAN'T SPEAK FOR OTHER WHITE PEOPLE.
OKAY, I FEEL-- I FEEL GUILTY FOR ANYONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE
THINGS I HAVE.
AND THAT INCLUDES, YOU KNOW, BLACK PEOPLE OR ANYONE BECAUSE I
AM SO BLESSED THAT I THINK THERE IS ALWAYS THE FEAR IT WILL BE
TAKEN FROM YOU.
>> AND WHAT CAN YOU DO TO MANAGE THAT GUILT?
LIKE WHAT HAVE YOU FOWRCHEDZ-- .
>> Stephen: I DRINK A FAIR AMOUNT.
>> I DRINK-- (LAUGHTER)
>> YOU'RE GREAT.
>> Stephen: I MEAN-- I DON'T KNOW, I'M SHOOTING FROM THE HIP
HERE, SHOOTING FROM THE HIP HERE.
HI YOU ON THE SHOW, DOES THAT HELP AT ALL.
>> BABY STEPS, YOU GOT TO START SOMEWHERE.
GOT TO CREATE SPACE FOR THE CONVERSATION.
WE CAN'T ADDRESS WHAT WE DON'T TALK ABOUT.
>> Stephen: I WAS AT THE MARCH ON WASHINGTON, DOES THAT HELP?
>> YOU WERE AT THE MARCH ON WASHINGTON.
>> Stephen: I WAS, MY MOM WAS THERE AND SHE WAS PREGNANT WITH
ME.
>> NICE.
I LOVE IT.
>> Stephen: BABY STEPS.
>> LITERAL, LITERAL BABY STEPS.
>> THAT WAS GOOD.
THAT WAS GOOD.
>> Stephen: DERAY MCKESSON, EVERYBODY.
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.